Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
01-25-2012, 09:21 AM   #136
Veteran Member
fikkser's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Borlänge, Sweden
Posts: 373
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Why is CCD not DSLR competitive? Who cares about liveview and movie? CCD does mean better IQ then CMOS, isn't that what FF customers are after anyway? It means a FF camera with better IQ then the other big brands. I think it's very competitive.
They could never release an FF with CCD. Why would anyone except Leica do something like that? IQ of CMOS great.

IQ might be competetive at iso 100, and how many cares about only that? Pentax alredy got the 645D.

01-25-2012, 09:27 AM   #137
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,118
QuoteOriginally posted by fikkser Quote
They could never release an FF with CCD. Why would anyone except Leica do something like that? IQ of CMOS great.

IQ might be competetive at iso 100, and how many cares about only that? Pentax alredy got the 645D.
Correct, the IQ of CMOS is great nowadays... But the IQ of CCD is even better. And as CMOS FF isn't really an option, why not CCD FF? Again, who cares about liveview and moviemode?
01-25-2012, 09:44 AM   #138
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: 5th floor
Posts: 1,324
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
IMHO, after several years of reading his reasoned and measured posts, falconeye has the professional skill and expertise to speculate reasonably; identifies his speculative comments as such; clearly articulates that which he knows to be fact, including publishing extensive technical articles to support his opinions; and may, in fact, (as I suspect others here are) be subject to a NDA with Pentax.

In your court.
I think that you are going down the slippery slope here, and I am not sure if you want to go there.

What you are saying, if I am reading you correctly, is that there are certain people who get to say certain things without getting dinged on, and this is solely based on what they have posted in the past and how many. It is perfectly reasonable, as one reader, that you believe one comment more so than the other based on what has been said before and by whom. But, when you begin to insinuate that you cannot post this way or that, just because you are not this or that, is in my view censorship, or something very very close to it. To me there is a fundamental flaw here.

I fully agree with you that falconeye has been around here for years and that he has certainly demonstrated expertise. It is perfectly reasonable that one believes his comments over mine. But, that is not to say that you can tell people what others can say and how.

I don't know what NDA is, but if I were to guess, it is probably something like "non disclosure agreement." If you happen to have that with Pentax, in my opinion it is truly the dumbest move of the century to hang out at a place like this and spew out bits and bits of info here and there for your own amusement. You should say nothing at all. The only reason for someone with NDA want to say something would be to make the reader jealous of the fact that he knows something that nobody do. It is not only stupid, but incredibly egoistic of pathological proportion. Disregard if NDA means something else.

I also see a double standard here. Consider this thread for example.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/172213-new-k-01-mirror...ra-coming.html

This OP, while I have nothing bad to say about him/her, titles it as if it is almost fact. My understanding is that this is a rumor, correct? This person has only 41 posts. This is ok then?

I can understand why people want to gang up on me here because I often say things that you don't want to hear, or see. It is what it is. Having double standard because of what is said in the past and sentiments related to it is childish at best.

I have in the past why I feel that the next DSLR will be APS-C. Kitazawa stated in the interview that he believes that DSLR can be made smaller with larger viewfinder, and that they will not abandon K mount. He has also said that in regards to FF, it makes no sense for Pentax to do what others did with FF. When I read between the lines of that interview excerpts, to me the message is clear. They will not abandon APS-C, probably because of the profit margin difference between APS-C and FF sensors.

In the end, this is a news and rumor section. This is where we speculate. We are talking about products that have not been released. As far as I am concerned, everything said here is speculation. I am not certain why anyone would want to take any statements made here (no matter who made them) as facts.

Back in your court.

Last edited by Fontan; 01-25-2012 at 10:05 AM.
01-25-2012, 10:02 AM   #139
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: 5th floor
Posts: 1,324
QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Thanks for the hint.

The point is I try to avoid it and if I'm criticised for not making clear what is fact or opinion, then I appreciate the critics. I invite you to do the same.

You may also note that I didn't react on your original comment, but on the way you dealt with critics from Asahiflex who (like monochrome) is a respected member and deserves a consideration of what he said.

(Side Note. The comment you quoted was a statement nobody can know if it is true or not. But if Pentax will release FF in 2012 or not is something some do actually know. Not you, obviously.)
I agree that your point is well taken.

But, falconeye, when I argue(because I like to argue), I do apply what I consider to be reasonable logic and thoughts behind it. True, often times I conduct that in rather passive-aggressive way, but nonetheless, I will never disregard anyone by saying that so and so is a troll, or some thing like that.

In forums like this, especially here, it is not very difficult to be respected. All one has to do with post a lot, and agree with what everybody say. Who knows, I can be posting under another handle name with entirely different level of respectability. Therefore I go by what is being said at that moment, and what has been said in regards to the context at hand. I judge one's ability to rationally and logically work out their thought process. I don't care who you are. If you demonstrate a good line of reasoning, as you do often and a lot, I will give you my respect and I have (not that you care if you get it or not, I assume).

As to your side note, you are correct that I don't know anything about what Pentax is about to release. I do read lots of Japanese photography magazines, and back in the days when Pentax was under Hoya, I used to have a lively discussion about 645D before its release with my Pentax bronchoscope sales rep and technician, and both were avid shooter. I realize that they are still under Hoya, and probably no longer have anything insider views, but interestingly he is coming today to chat with me about some technical issues relating to the new scope we just purchased. But that is about it.

It is to me funny that I do sense a tiny hint of egoism in that you seem to say you know something I don't. It is as if you just couldn't hold back in the end. That is perfectly ok, because I am a big boy and I can handle it.

01-25-2012, 04:32 PM   #140
Pentaxian




Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Madison, Wis., USA
Posts: 1,510
I won't address the rest of your post because it's time for beer and pizza (more of the former and less of the latter tonight, I expect), but I would argue that simply agreeing with others is the way to be familiar here but not the way to be respected, at least in the eyes of those who read these forums carefully. Just the opposite: endless agreement is simply white noise - a random background signal with no intelligence.

Unless, of course, the author is a good writer with a bit of wit. Then just the read is a good experience.
01-25-2012, 05:16 PM   #141
Pentaxian
falconeye's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Munich, Alps, Germany
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,863
Fontan, I think we exchanged our views. Fair enough. Back on topic
QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
you seem to say you know something I don't
Sorry if I appeared to suggest this. It wasn't intended and I don't assume I know something you don't. I only assumed that you expressed an opinion in your original comment.
01-25-2012, 05:34 PM   #142
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,997
QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
I think that you are going down the slippery slope here, and I am not sure if you want to go there.

Back in your court.
I accept your contentions (though I didn't quote them for space) and withdraw any perceived implication that you are not entitled to an opinion and to express it. To suggest that isn't my intention. I read and consider your posts as closely as many others'. I was I imagine reacting to what I perceived as unwarranted tone. Your two responses are reasoned and well written.

I'll also point out that someone on the other thread called rparmar a troll and told him to post off, and I objected to that post, as well. You certainly aren't there.

There has been a history of hinting since the pre-release K-7 images (before you joined) that may be a Pentax marketing tactic. Reading between the lines of the hints is part of the game.
01-25-2012, 06:18 PM   #143
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: 5th floor
Posts: 1,324
QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Fontan, I think we exchanged our views. Fair enough. Back on topic

Sorry if I appeared to suggest this. It wasn't intended and I don't assume I know something you don't. I only assumed that you expressed an opinion in your original comment.
Falconeye, don't be sorry. No need to apologize. I interpreted it wrong. It was a good exchange of our views, and in the future I will try to be more sensible when posting.

I do respect your views, and appreciate what you do and have done for this forum.

01-25-2012, 06:32 PM   #144
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: 5th floor
Posts: 1,324
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I accept your contentions (though I didn't quote them for space) and withdraw any perceived implication that you are not entitled to an opinion and to express it. To suggest that isn't my intention. I read and consider your posts as closely as many others'. I was I imagine reacting to what I perceived as unwarranted tone. Your two responses are reasoned and well written.

I'll also point out that someone on the other thread called rparmar a troll and told him to post off, and I objected to that post, as well. You certainly aren't there.

There has been a history of hinting since the pre-release K-7 images (before you joined) that may be a Pentax marketing tactic. Reading between the lines of the hints is part of the game.
Thank you for giving it a thought. I accept fully the fact that you did not intend to tell me what I can and cannot say.

I do remember the thread that you mentioned. I agree that rparmar is his own man, and he always respond with clear logic. I always enjoy his come back when stupid comments(including mine) are made.

So, as Falconeye says, back to the topic.

Here I go again. I really think that next DSLR will be APS-C with 100% viewfinder if not larger(is that possible?). Knowing what happened with K-5, I don't think Pentax want that to be last of APS-C/DSLR. Quite a lot have been vested in DA line of lenses. From the standpoint of sensible business tactics, the only way Pentax can make anything out of going into FF is to price it somewhere between top line APS-C and somebody else's FF (Didn't Canon do this with 5D?). I have said this before, but to do this they can 1) have a stripped version of FF, or 2) have FF in a format that has not been utilized in yet - mirrorless. I like the latter. To me, FF DSLR is a losing battle. For the same reasons APS-C mirrorless does not make a lot of sense to me. It will complete with their own APS-C DSLR. It just feels too crowded. For a company of their size, it makes sense to have a simple line up. So, instead of having a K-x replacement, they can slip in a mirrorless APS-C. This to me is risky, because K-x has been their bread and butter.
01-25-2012, 11:21 PM   #145
Pentaxian
gazonk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Oslo area, Norway
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,511
QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
I really think that next DSLR will be APS-C with 100% viewfinder if not larger(is that possible?).
No, 100% is coverage, not magnification, so it doesn't make sense.
01-25-2012, 11:42 PM   #146
Veteran Member
Anvh's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,616
QuoteOriginally posted by Frogfish Quote
Well regarding the first point that doesn't make any sense whatsoever because the loss of users to a FF camera is linear, more like a production line than a battleground charge ! There were more new users to Pentax over the production run of the Kx and Kr than ever before as the number of DSLR users worldwide has exploded, and those users will need a couple of years or so to grow through the system.

DA lenses can also work with a Pentax FF camera just as Nikon's DX lenses can work with the D700 in DX mode and as has been shown many of them will work just fine on FF anyway.
But those Kx and Kr user will mostly have DA glass and you ain't buying a FF camera and only use half of the sensor, that doesn't make sense.
I for example have only DA lenses, what will i gain with getting a Pentax FF?
I will need to get new lenses... i might as well stop waiting and get D700 or 5D mark II instead if i want FF.
I don't want FF but do you see the point?

Pentax has more or less comitted themself with APS-C because they only have DA lenses besides the macro and a few limited.

They might bring back some FA lenses when FF gets launched but for the now new Pentax user with DA lenses it just isn't that intersting becuase it's new system they need to buy in and so they just as well buy into another brand.

Last edited by Anvh; 01-25-2012 at 11:49 PM.
01-25-2012, 11:54 PM - 1 Like   #147
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,840
About 100% coverage:
Well, it is possible - IIRC Sigma had that, calling it a "sports viewfinder" or something. A nice name for being lazy and reusing a film viewfinder, I guess.
But larger than 100% coverage means showing more than you'll capture. Probably you wanted a higher magnification viewfinder - still showing exactly (100% coverage) what you'll capture, but larger.
Magnification can go beyond 1x (Olympus E-5 has 1.15x); but the higher it is, the darker the image (you're already losing quite a bit of light because of AF).

I do not think either stripped down FF or mirrorless/EVF FF can work. The first, because it wouldn't be so much cheaper, the second because mirrorless/EVF aren't yet there (so far it's consumer technology, competing at the entry level).
The best chance for a FF, IMO, is the classic DSLR.
01-26-2012, 01:31 AM   #148
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: 5th floor
Posts: 1,324
What the

Pentax LX-D : New Full Frame concept ? | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
01-26-2012, 01:43 AM   #149
Pentaxian
Asahiflex's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Netherlands
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,754
That was posted earlier in the other topic (K-01). It's obviously fake and based on the Rollei 2000/3003.
01-26-2012, 01:49 AM   #150
Veteran Member
Frogfish's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 4,490
QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
But those Kx and Kr user will mostly have DA glass and you ain't buying a FF camera and only use half of the sensor, that doesn't make sense.
I for example have only DA lenses, what will i gain with getting a Pentax FF?
I will need to get new lenses... i might as well stop waiting and get D700 or 5D mark II instead if i want FF.
I don't want FF but do you see the point?

Pentax has more or less comitted themself with APS-C because they only have DA lenses besides the macro and a few limited.

They might bring back some FA lenses when FF gets launched but for the now new Pentax user with DA lenses it just isn't that intersting becuase it's new system they need to buy in and so they just as well buy into another brand.

Stefan,

Many Kx/Kr buyers are new to DSLR which means they will need time for some of them to progress to a level where they feel the need for something more than APS-C, the fact they have bought DA lenses is neither here nor there in that case since :
a) the forums are full of people selling their current lenses to buy something else (either within Pentax or moving on to another brand - and vice versa) and ..
b) because, as I have mentioned already, DA lenses could easily be made to used to work on a FF Pentax by virtue of a 'DX' mode which reduces the image circle and ergo megapixels at the same time.

Pentax do not only have DA lenses ! The FA 31, 43 and 77 and 35 macro are still in production and other much larger (and horrendously expensive) FA lenses can be bought via special order to Japan. It wouldn't be a major revamp to reintroduce top quality FA lenses whose designs already exist and may only need tweaking for the digital age.

The fact though that all legacy lenses and new FA and DA lenses (using a reduced image circle mode) would work on a Pentax FF, instantly offering hundreds of lens choices - even though most are used not new, blows that objection out of the water thereby negating the need to transition to a different brand.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
24x36mm, aps-c, camera, capacity, company, d4s, dont, ff, followers, frame, full-frame, idea, im, iso, k-3, lens, lenses, letter, light, lw/ph, nikon, page, pentax, release, time, traffic
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The full frame Pentax that never was dj_saunter Pentax DSLR Discussion 23 05-06-2011 04:06 AM
Pentax and Full Frame oppositz Pentax DSLR Discussion 58 03-18-2011 09:39 AM
Full frame pentax cem.kumuk Pentax DSLR Discussion 11 11-12-2010 03:13 PM
Pentax and Full Frame... Shutter-bug Photographic Technique 60 11-03-2010 10:03 AM
Pentax A 50/1.2 on Full Frame aegisphan Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 23 10-28-2010 04:16 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:32 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top