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02-14-2012, 12:31 PM   #271
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Can they just slap in that FF sensor with new SR module and change nothing else?
I think a VF of some sort might be demanded (and tav mode)

slight redesign, add 2 wheel control WR change from aluminum to mag allot rip out the flash drop a WL EVF and have attachments for sports and regular prism and a WL hood. sell it for $1800 (Bang 3 finders in one)
I'd buy even with all the stuff that would be missing still. Flash stick a shoe on the edge like the old slr away from the lens

not certain many traditionalists would accept a k-F1 ff mirrorless though.

02-14-2012, 12:36 PM   #272
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
I think a VF of some sort might be demanded (and tav mode)

slight redesign, add 2 wheel control WR change from aluminum to mag allot rip out the flash drop a WL EVF and have attachments for sports and regular prism and a WL hood. sell it for $1800 (Bang 3 finders in one)
I'd buy even with all the stuff that would be missing still. Flash stick a shoe on the edge like the old slr away from the lens

not certain many traditionalists would accept a k-F1 ff mirrorless though.
A lot of wishes and not even outrages wishes.

The question was, could it just fit into that nice little yellow brick (called K-01) and make it the cheapest Full Frame camera on the market?!
02-14-2012, 12:53 PM   #273
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
A lot of wishes and not even outrages wishes.

The question was, could it just fit into that nice little yellow brick (called K-01) and make it the cheapest Full Frame camera on the market?!
Just change he sensor and nothing else. well i'm sure it would fit....but I'm just as sure it would be an epic fail (add a grand to the price to be able to include a FF sensor and then compare it to the competition. Add a n EVF and WR and modify the grip slightly and it wouldn't be. It wouldn't compete with the big 3 but at a grand less it wouldn't have to.
It would also be uniwue in the market and fill a hole

think of it as a digital K1000 maybe

the perfect photography student camera FF Performance at a bargain price. Later you can have a pro version with OVF once you are established in the market
02-14-2012, 04:02 PM   #274
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Can they just slap in that FF sensor with new SR module and change nothing else?
It needs a new body of course.
But making FF bodies is what Pentax did most of their history..

02-14-2012, 04:16 PM   #275
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
It needs a new body of course.
But making FF bodies is what Pentax did most of their history..
And the basic idea of making a cheap FF mirrorless based upon K-01? That would not compete with D4/D800/1Dx but serving a new market. Would that work?

How much difference would that body need to be? Things that change are sensorsize, the base SR system and the shutter. This would probably be just a max of 3 fps so not to demanding on the shutter.
02-14-2012, 04:42 PM   #276
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
And the basic idea of making a cheap FF mirrorless based upon K-01? That would not compete with D4/D800/1Dx but serving a new market. Would that work?.
Serving a non-existing market won't work. Trying to compete with Nikon and Canon in this class not only without a decent finder but without any finder is madness. All for saving $10.
02-14-2012, 05:01 PM   #277
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Serving a non-existing market won't work
Well one point to make is to create a market that where sales are big enough for Pentax. When you try to compete with Canon/Nikon you need to bring the goodies at their level.

QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
All for saving $10.
Funny remark. Maybe even true. Now I do wonder why K-01 hasn't got one, or why those EVF from other brands are so expensive.


Question is:
Is there a market for a Full Frame camera (mirrorless) that is slow as hell (compared to D4/1Dx) in processing (like 645D is in MF) but still brings the image quality for that level (as 645D is in MF)? Lacks any of the fancy stuff that Canon/Nikon bring but is yellow. Does not work for proper professional work as reporter or sportsphotographer, but will make excellent stills images (and video). Does not make 100 RAW images at 10 fps, but just reaches to 12 images at 3 fps. Has no option to send images wireless to your working station, but does work well for astrophotography.
02-14-2012, 05:25 PM   #278
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There is a market for a Pentax FF, particularly if it is competitively priced as their APS-Cs are. No other FF bodies would be able to autofocus the legendary FF K-mount lenses...

02-14-2012, 05:50 PM - 1 Like   #279
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To whom will it appeal?

Pentax should stop and think about to whom a full frame camera is going to appeal. The answer to me seems quite simple, traditional photographers. If they are after a unique market, well, there is one thing that a Pentax full frame could do that no Canon, Nikon, or Sony FF can, and that is use a K mount lens.

If one is after the absolute smallest camera, Pentax has that market covered with the Q, if you want a good balance between size and image quality there is the K-5 or the K-01, but at the moment there is nothing for folks who want the absolute highest image quality from the K mount. For this type of photographer, size is of secondary concern, so it's got to have a viewfinder for it to appeal to anyone willing to drop $2500. The question then becomes EVF or OVF?

I had the opportunity to play with a Sony SLT in the studio the other day, and a major disadvantage of the EVF suddenly became as clear to me as crystal. The EVF only shows what the sensor sees, it doesn't take into account that the moment the shutter is pressed the illumination is going to change drastically. It was trying to show me that my image was going to be grossly underexposed, so all I saw was a black view finder, it was basically unusable in a low key environment. This would be true of a mirrorless as well, it's just not good for flash photography.

The only sensible design for a full frame camera, considering it's target audience, is a traditional SLR design no matter how boring and unoriginal that may seem to Pentax.

Last edited by maxfield_photo; 02-14-2012 at 08:59 PM.
02-14-2012, 08:54 PM   #280
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A Pentax full-frame could be made to be as small as the *ist D. And that would be one small camera!

If they did that (but included a grip option) and offered a feature lineup similar to that of the K-5, people would jump on it.

Similarly, if they did an advanced mirrorless design, that would work as well (though not appeal as much to traditional photographers). I have a hunch that this is what they're toying with...and though I'd prefer an SLR at the moment, I have a feeling that SLRs will slowly start being phased out over the coming decade or two, or at best remain in the pro-only class, once the technology needed for pro-level mirrorless cameras is developed.

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02-14-2012, 09:10 PM   #281
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
A Pentax full-frame could be made to be as small as the *ist D. And that would be one small camera!

If they did that (but included a grip option) and offered a feature lineup similar to that of the K-5, people would jump on it.

Similarly, if they did an advanced mirrorless design, that would work as well (though not appeal as much to traditional photographers). I have a hunch that this is what they're toying with...and though I'd prefer an SLR at the moment, I have a feeling that SLRs will slowly start being phased out over the coming decade or two, or at best remain in the pro-only class, once the technology needed for pro-level mirrorless cameras is developed.
The *ist D is a great design. I actually bought one used around 8 years after it was released and was impressed with the button layout and ergonomics in general. If the camera had faster card writing speeds it would be used as often as my newer cameras... Although, I just recently used it with a AF280T flash and had great results.

Yeah, they might be able to fit most of it in. Of course no SR at that size, but I think it could still be appealing. They would have to increase the size a bit for a 3" LCD, a FF viewfinder prism, and presumably a D-LI90 battery.
02-14-2012, 11:26 PM   #282
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QuoteOriginally posted by maxfield_photo Quote
I had the opportunity to play with a Sony SLT in the studio the other day, and a major disadvantage of the EVF suddenly became as clear to me as crystal. The EVF only shows what the sensor sees, it doesn't take into account that the moment the shutter is pressed the illumination is going to change drastically. It was trying to show me that my image was going to be grossly underexposed, so all I saw was a black view finder, it was basically unusable in a low key environment. This would be true of a mirrorless as well, it's just not good for flash photography.

The only sensible design for a full frame camera, considering it's target audience, is a traditional SLR design no matter how boring and unoriginal that may seem to Pentax.
That's a very good point and i never thought of that. But then again, for studio, pentax has the 645D, which does have a optical viewfinder. I think if a pro has money for a serious studio, he would have the money for the 645D.

A mirrorless FF could still be pertinent for non pros, hobbyist with lots of money. They should make it under the ricoh name though, and go all modular with a fullframe digital back - no mount, with a k-mount adapter that has full support for all features, and a m-mount adapter.
02-15-2012, 02:36 AM   #283
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QuoteOriginally posted by Spare Tire Quote
I think if a pro has money for a serious studio, he would have the money for the 645D.
That may be true (although an excellent studio setup runs for half the 645D) but a D800 is more versatile for most studio shooters, all things considered like choice of lenses, tethering and mobile studio setups.

OTOH, most mirrorless have a mode which autoadjusts EVF brightness independently from shooting parameters. In the studio, one would have to enable this mode.
02-15-2012, 03:23 AM   #284
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QuoteOriginally posted by maxfield_photo Quote
The only sensible design for a full frame camera, considering it's target audience, is a traditional SLR design no matter how boring and unoriginal that may seem to Pentax.
Very true. That goes for most cameras, it only becomes more evident when the requirements increase.
02-15-2012, 03:52 AM   #285
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
A Pentax full-frame could be made to be as small as the *ist D. And that would be one small camera!
Without SR and with a very low magnification viewfinder.
If they're going to make smaller cameras, they should make them slightly thinner, IMO; the K-5 is almost too small in every other direction.
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