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05-25-2012, 11:05 AM - 1 Like   #511
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
here is a D3, doesn't look like the components are bigger.
A Canon D3?

05-25-2012, 03:54 PM   #512
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
But there never was a separate RGB flash sensor, so should they put more hardware in to keep a feature or should they keep the hardware the same.
Depends on your point of view really.

I would love to see the size of those components now

and.... nikon doesn't have TTL either with digital so would love to see the proof they use a separate meter for the flash light now.
TTL flash control by 2016-segment RGB sensor

Nikon D7000 Review: Digital Photography Review

And the D5000:

TTL: i-TTL balanced fill-flash and standard i-TTL flash for digital SLR using 420-pixel RGB sensor

Nikon D5000 Review: Digital Photography Review

Nikon uses a separate sensor array for flash and a much larger array for PDAF, which is why their AF tracks 3D so well and also takes up more housing when both are installed.

Pentax meters off the mirror using a much simpler, and less expensive system using redundancies in the design. Nikon is in a league of its own when it comes to strobing. Sony and Canon TTL similar to Pentax.
05-25-2012, 04:11 PM   #513
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Oops

QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Huh? I'm certainly not aware of Pentax ever creating their own sensor. The most recent business models have been sharing sensors with Sony (manufacturer) and Nikon, and before that Samsung (manufacturer).
Yes, you are correct. Pentax never has created their own sensor. Good catch. Food for thought: For Pentax to maintain its individuality and breakout and away from the pack, I would like to see Sigma's Foveon sensor evolve into a great full frame sensor and collaborate with Pentax to include it in a FF Pentax camera. That would be a worthy endeavor for R&D if Ricoh/Pentax and Sigma can strike an equitable agreement. The Foveon chip is remarkable, but Sigma is doing very little with it I can see. I wonder why?

Cheers,
Don

Last edited by donaldchalfy; 05-25-2012 at 04:12 PM. Reason: spelling
05-25-2012, 05:14 PM   #514
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
TTL flash control by 2016-segment RGB sensor

Nikon D7000 Review: Digital Photography Review

And the D5000:

TTL: i-TTL balanced fill-flash and standard i-TTL flash for digital SLR using 420-pixel RGB sensor

Nikon D5000 Review: Digital Photography Review

Nikon uses a separate sensor array for flash and a much larger array for PDAF, which is why their AF tracks 3D so well and also takes up more housing when both are installed.

Pentax meters off the mirror using a much simpler, and less expensive system using redundancies in the design. Nikon is in a league of its own when it comes to strobing. Sony and Canon TTL similar to Pentax.
No it doesn't.

TTL exposure metering using 2016-pixel RGB sensor
Auto (TTL white-balance with 2016 pixels RGB sensor)
TTL flash control by 2016-segment RGB sensor

Or they have 3 sensors or they use 1 sensor like all the other brands do


d5000
TTL full-aperture exposure metering using 420-pixel RGB sensor
Auto WB (Using main imaging sensor and 420-pixel metering CCD)
TTL: i-TTL balanced fill-flash and standard i-TTL flash for digital SLR using 420-pixel RGB sensor


If you can show me an article where someone says they use a separate sensor then i will believe you but at the moment your source seem to say the use the same sensor.


ps. AF tracking has to do how smart the system is, so the algorithms behind it, it has less to do with the AF sensor itself.


anyway here is another source saying you aren't right...
http://dpanswers.com/content/nikon_flash.php
QuoteQuote:
Users familiar with Nikon's TTL on their film cameras will notice a subtle difference when moving on to i-TTL. In the case of the i-TTL, the power of the flash is not controlled during the exposure by measurement off the film surface itself. Off-the-film (OTF) measurement is not possible with digital cameras as the sensor's surface is not appropriate for measuring off. This factor, combined with the decreased latitude of the digital sensor when compared to film means that the i-TTL user must expect slightly less accuracy when using i-TTL, compared to the traditional OTF TTL measurement used on a film camera.

Instead i-TTL relies on something called pre-flash for exposure control. It works like this: The camera fires one or more low power pre-flashes milliseconds before the shutter opens. It then measures the light from this pre-flash as it is reflected from the subject through the lens (TTL). The camera uses this reading to compute the power ratio for the flash for correct exposure. The camera communicates the desired power-ratio to the flash and the flash adjust its power accordingly. Finally, the camera opens the shutter and fires the flash to make the exposure. The i-TTL system provides a fully automatic exposure control that seamlessly integrates camera and flash, but the pre-flash sequence also introduces a tiny shutter delay.



Last edited by Anvh; 05-25-2012 at 05:23 PM.
05-29-2012, 02:44 AM   #515
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Pentax Tech Support confirm no full-frame DSLR

Hello to all,

I have just registered in order to pass on some news received from Pentax Tech Support and would like to add what a slick process it was registering to an excellent standard forum.

Being the lucky owner of a K5 with pair of kit lenses (as interim prior to planned 50-135 DA*, 200mm and 300mm primes), the appearance of the Nikon D800 raised some questions on how Pentax might respond, so I wrote to them and asked.

I require a full-frame DSLR (for FOV on a Schneider tilt-shift lens, when bought), so the issue is, do I spend thousands of pounds building up a Pentax lens collection or 'bail out' and head for Nikon?

'Dear Pentax, will you be bringing out a full-frame DSLR in the near future?'.

NO. Pentax tech support answered both politely and promptly that they (quote) '... have no plans to introduce a full-frame DSLR'.

The email was quite clear. It does at least answer one aspect of the 'problem' of how Pentax would deal with the D800 encroaching on the capabilities of the D645 (encroaching for now, not matching). This leaves me concerned for Pentax. The price of the 40Mp D645 (or other MF backs for that matter) cannot stick, with a 36Mp DSLR on the market for £2600.

I write now as one no longer buying Pentax, though I will be keeping the K5 - it is still as good as before hearing that a full-frame is not going to appear. Shame I won't be getting the better lenses to go with it.

Apologies for my first post bearing further unfortunate news of lack of Pentax full-frame DSLR. Some may well question it (and call me 'Troll'), but I do not doubt Pentax' response to a straightforward question. No full frame DSLR. My thanks to Pentax for being open and honest - down to you whether you also accept their statement.

What rumours of a 60Mp D645 soon? (perhaps the only way to maintain the price of the D645).

Best regards,
Matty
05-29-2012, 05:10 AM   #516
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About Nikon D800: The Swedish Magazine Foto tested it against D700 (12 MP), in a shoot-out using a Nikkor 50 mm 1.4 G at f/8. The D800 performed a "mere" 35% better (horizontal and vertical resolution), while the theoretical difference should be about 75%. It would be interesting to see the results from a similar shoot-out with the D645.
05-29-2012, 05:20 AM   #517
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QuoteOriginally posted by K-erpow! Quote
Some may well question it (and call me 'Troll'), but I do not doubt Pentax' response to a straightforward question.
Without providing the email you speak of it will be more like this:

QuoteOriginally posted by K-erpow! Quote
Some may All will well question it (and call me 'Troll'), but I do not doubt Pentax' response to a straightforward question.
05-29-2012, 05:29 AM   #518
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QuoteOriginally posted by K-erpow! Quote
Hello to all,

I have just registered in order to pass on some news received from Pentax Tech Support and would like to add what a slick process it was registering to an excellent standard forum.

Being the lucky owner of a K5 with pair of kit lenses (as interim prior to planned 50-135 DA*, 200mm and 300mm primes), the appearance of the Nikon D800 raised some questions on how Pentax might respond, so I wrote to them and asked.

I require a full-frame DSLR (for FOV on a Schneider tilt-shift lens, when bought), so the issue is, do I spend thousands of pounds building up a Pentax lens collection or 'bail out' and head for Nikon?

'Dear Pentax, will you be bringing out a full-frame DSLR in the near future?'.

NO. Pentax tech support answered both politely and promptly that they (quote) '... have no plans to introduce a full-frame DSLR'.

The email was quite clear. It does at least answer one aspect of the 'problem' of how Pentax would deal with the D800 encroaching on the capabilities of the D645 (encroaching for now, not matching). This leaves me concerned for Pentax. The price of the 40Mp D645 (or other MF backs for that matter) cannot stick, with a 36Mp DSLR on the market for £2600.

I write now as one no longer buying Pentax, though I will be keeping the K5 - it is still as good as before hearing that a full-frame is not going to appear. Shame I won't be getting the better lenses to go with it.

Apologies for my first post bearing further unfortunate news of lack of Pentax full-frame DSLR. Some may well question it (and call me 'Troll'), but I do not doubt Pentax' response to a straightforward question. No full frame DSLR. My thanks to Pentax for being open and honest - down to you whether you also accept their statement.

What rumours of a 60Mp D645 soon? (perhaps the only way to maintain the price of the D645).

Best regards,
Matty
What did you expect them to say? sorry but not a chance an email will elicit info on any upcoming product. wouldn't matter what the company was. They have danced around it and dropped hints at various places all year. I would put the chances of an announcement at photokina at about 75% but actual release this year more like 40% next spring being a better bet

As for a 645D mk2 - you can bet it's well under development and will be at minimum a 60mp crop sensor (I hope they make the leap to a ff 645 sensor myself but that may not come until mark 3)

05-29-2012, 05:50 AM   #519
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No full-frame DSLR - Pentax confirm

Hello Clavius,

Congratulations on your next post, nice round 1000

I have submitted the emails from Pentax confirming no full-frame DSLR to Administrator Adam for his review. I decline to post them here without permission from Pentax to do so.

Corporate policy may change occasionally of course, but Pentax gain nothing, indeed have lost my custom, by emailing to state 'No full-frame DSLR' - I applaud their honesty.

Beyond that, it matters not to me who believes the post, but some may find themselves with a long, long wait for something Pentax say isn't going to appear...

Regards,
Matty
05-29-2012, 06:20 AM   #520
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QuoteOriginally posted by K-erpow! Quote
Corporate policy may change occasionally of course, but Pentax gain nothing, indeed have lost my custom, by emailing to state 'No full-frame DSLR' - I applaud their honesty.
Didn't you wonder: "Why didn't all those thousands of users in those hundreds of Pentax FF-threads think of just emailing Pentax?"

For a Pentax employee to disclose the existance of an upcomming FF would be über-stupid. A marketing disaster of gigantic proportions. It would be smart to deny until it is revealed.
05-29-2012, 06:35 AM   #521
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Didn't you wonder: "Why didn't all those thousands of users in those hundreds of Pentax FF-threads think of just emailing Pentax?"

For a Pentax employee to disclose the existance of an upcomming FF would be über-stupid. A marketing disaster of gigantic proportions. It would be smart to deny until it is revealed.
exactly

the only response possible until there is an official announcement is "no Full Frame"
05-29-2012, 06:44 AM   #522
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Sounds like the Nikon's "We don't plan to launch a FF camera" - days before they did. Now we know: Pentax will do it!
05-29-2012, 07:34 AM   #523
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I don't count very much on Pentax releasing a FF camera either, but that tech support email tells us ... NOTHING. They might or might not know if a camera like that was coming. And even if it was coming and they knew it, they'd have to play by the official situation of that point of time.
05-29-2012, 08:12 AM   #524
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QuoteOriginally posted by the swede Quote
QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
here is a D3, doesn't look like the components are bigger.
A Canon D3?
I like how this has been completely ignored so far. It's clearly not a Nikon D3:
05-29-2012, 08:36 AM   #525
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
It would be smart to deny until it is revealed.
The appropriate (unfortunately) thing to do is say something like:

"We are always developing future products to meet our customer's needs. We can not speculate on unannounced products, however"

or some such drivel.
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