Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-06-2012, 02:07 PM   #601
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,892
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
How much does D800 change that market, or is it just a temporary rush from customers to that camera (either replacing older FF or starting into FF) and will the FF market in six months go back to where it was six months ago?
I think the D600, if as rumored is under $2k, that's a game changer. The D800 is super-awesome but most people don't want to buy a DSLR for $3k.

06-06-2012, 05:30 PM   #602
Veteran Member
jsherman999's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,228
QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote

I do not buy into the $1,500 D600 price optimism. I'm going for $2,199.
Probably close to that.

$1500, $1600 would mean that they're pretty much giving up on pro-level aps-c, which I don't think they're ready to do yet.
06-06-2012, 05:40 PM   #603
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,892
Given the way that they've stormed the market (better stuff for $500 below competitors price), I think they're targeting sub-$2k. I think they'd be justified charging $2500. I therefore think they'll charge $2k.
06-06-2012, 07:26 PM   #604
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Manila
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,190
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Given the way that they've stormed the market (better stuff for $500 below competitors price), I think they're targeting sub-$2k. I think they'd be justified charging $2500. I therefore think they'll charge $2k.
If the D600 falls into the $1,800 ~ 2,000 range, it will be a big price challenge for the K-5 replacement, especially for those who are into the FF mania. I wonder if Ricoh can pull it a bit lower?

06-07-2012, 01:00 AM   #605
Veteran Member
Louicio's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 432
It is possible if there is a D600 in the $1500-$2000 price range it will lack alot of features that are normally on a pro-DSLR and be more of a Intermediate body with a FF sensor to create a new niche market for those who want the sensor and not the advanced body features. Pure speculation, but my 2 cents.
06-07-2012, 07:18 AM   #606
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,892
QuoteOriginally posted by Louicio Quote
It is possible if there is a D600 in the $1500-$2000 price range it will lack alot of features that are normally on a pro-DSLR and be more of a Intermediate body with a FF sensor to create a new niche market for those who want the sensor and not the advanced body features. Pure speculation, but my 2 cents.
My speculation is that, at $1500, it wouldn't be a 'niche'. At $2k, perhaps true too. With the rumored features it's tough to see what's missing.
06-07-2012, 07:42 AM - 1 Like   #607
Loyal Site Supporter
eddie1960's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,209
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
My speculation is that, at $1500, it wouldn't be a 'niche'. At $2k, perhaps true too. With the rumored features it's tough to see what's missing.
the rumoured specs pretty much make it a 24mp FF D7000, so certainly there are areas for improvement (which are covered in the D800 and the D4)

@ $2000 it would still be a huge game changer for the apsc market @ $1500 it really completely disrupts the upper end APSC since their would be little for anyone to offer over these features in APSC (pentax could offer more since at the moment there is no upper level FF models to protedct on features but they don't have the tech to offer right now (ie AF and speed)

Either way it puts big pressure on Canon Sony and Pentax to offer a FF in this range since they would all likely bleed users to nikon @ $1500 and though less still bleed @$2000 - over $2000 psychological price barriers kick in and it becomes less critical
06-07-2012, 08:57 AM   #608
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Manila
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,190
$1500 for D600 would likely cannibalize sales of the D7000 successor.

06-07-2012, 09:56 AM   #609
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,892
Everybody has products that cannibalize themselves.

IMO (and this is really a trivial statement) FF will gradually work it's way down the price ladder of DSLR's. At the dawn of (digital) time, full frame sensors weren't really all that dominant. It wasn't all that long ago that some of Canon's best cameras had 1.3 crop sensors.

I don't see a reason why, assuming low sensor price, that the APS-C format will survive (long-term) in DSLR format.

It may be 10 or 20 years (or never!) when the cost increase of a FF sensor is negligible compared to APS-C, of course.

So in conclusion - it is very likely that at some point the successor of the D7000/K-5 *will* for all intents and purposes be a FF camera, even if the marketing nameplate is different (and should be different). It's just like when Canon brought out the 1D, vs. when they brought out the 1Ds. Sure, you could get either...

Last edited by ElJamoquio; 06-07-2012 at 10:03 AM.
06-07-2012, 06:19 PM   #610
Veteran Member
Louicio's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 432
I haven't heard any of the D600 rumours, but if I were to hazard a guess I would say that if you removed enough features (ie much less in-body features than the pro aps-c body) then a sale price $1500-$2000 isn't that unbelievable and people would buy a better body with more features. Just cos it's FF doesn't make it instantly the best and most expensive camera available.

And yes I agree with ElJamoquio in that it will slowly work its way down the ladder. Probably nowhere near the bottom, but as DSLR's become more popular and more affordable it makes sense to increase the product range of a company to entice more customers who have slightly different needs than others.
06-07-2012, 06:55 PM   #611
Site Supporter
Aristophanes's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,791
QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
$1500 for D600 would likely cannibalize sales of the D7000 successor.
Except there is also supposed to be a D400 APS-C coming out as the Nikon top-of-the line crop sensor camera, the camera wildlife pros shoot with regularly.

The Nikon pricing chart shows:

D800 @ US$2999/$3299
D600 @ US$2499 (my speculation)
D700 @US$2199
D400 @US$1699
D7000 @US$1099

I see the D700 staying in production for 1 more year, or a D600 replacing it entirely at US$2399.

The D800 has become the resolution monster spurring sales of new Mac towers and Western Digital external hard drives. The D800e is where the "e" stands for "extra moolah for moire"..

The D600 will have less res and features, but will add video and outclass the D700. It might be a bit more compact than the D700, but Nikon's FF bodies have to mount some very heavy glass.

The D700 will stay for awhile (sans video) because it still rocks and it has workable file sizes. It may drop to MSRP $2099. I cannot see it crossing the sub-$2k threshold as long as their is a a D400 on the horizon.

The D400 and D7000 are the APS-C pro and semi-pro guns. APS-C has a pro following amongst journalists, wildlife, macro, and prosumers looking for better value. The D90 ranks as one of Nikon's all-time best-selling cameras. As a result there is an enormous base of DX lenses and users.

I think Nikon has realized that FF lens prices keep a lot of people from buying up. They spend too much on the body and then purchase fewer lenses over a lifetime than anticipated. One reason why is many zooms rival primes in IQ, and high-ISO qualities mean less market need for faster glass. The f/1.4 aesthetic can be handled by a single, inexpensive, non-VR fast 50mm now.

I see major price room between $2k and $3k for another FF model. I predict the D600 right in that slot. I will be very surprised, humbled (and poorer in my wallet at Pentax's expense) if it comes onto the market sub-$2,000. It would shock the whole market, diminish Canon, but also kill Nikon's bottom line as no one would buy up to a D800. Companies very rarely do things like that, and almost never the uber-conservative Japanese companies. I just do not see Nikon—pretty much an all-DSLR company—doing that to the market at the expense of its own profit margins. Canon still out-markets Nikon and has far more pros in the fold, so going mass market at the expense of profits seems foolish.

If Pentax can get its hands on the same sensor as the D600, I see similarly equipped and priced model on display as a proof-of-concept at Photokina 2012. Sony may have some surprises as well.
06-08-2012, 12:27 AM   #612
Pentaxian
mecrox's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,991
QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Except there is also supposed to be a D400 APS-C coming out as the Nikon top-of-the line crop sensor camera, the camera wildlife pros shoot with regularly.

The Nikon pricing chart shows:

D800 @ US$2999/$3299
D600 @ US$2499 (my speculation)
D700 @US$2199
D400 @US$1699
D7000 @US$1099

[snip]
That's interesting. I guess the question for any Pentax pricing chart is whether they see room for two APS-C cameras above the K-30 or only one. If two, then it's hard to see how they could get an FF out any time soon unless they've significantly increased production capacity over the past few months since they would also have a low-end APS-C to consider as well as a possible new Q camera or at least a smaller-format one. If you include the K-30, that would add up to a lot of cameras to get out in a six to eight month period before one gets anywhere near an FF.
06-08-2012, 02:38 AM   #613
Site Supporter
Aristophanes's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,791
QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
That's interesting. I guess the question for any Pentax pricing chart is whether they see room for two APS-C cameras above the K-30 or only one. If two, then it's hard to see how they could get an FF out any time soon unless they've significantly increased production capacity over the past few months since they would also have a low-end APS-C to consider as well as a possible new Q camera or at least a smaller-format one. If you include the K-30, that would add up to a lot of cameras to get out in a six to eight month period before one gets anywhere near an FF.
Pentax has usually only had 2 APS-C DSLR's cameras in the market.

They could use 3 + a better designed K-01.

FF would be a single model.

That's K-mount.

Q-mount has an undersized sensor. Correct that (at the new price point) and they have a competitive model.

That's mirrorless compact.

FF mirrrorless is a fantasy right now.
06-08-2012, 04:44 AM   #614
Pentaxian
gazonk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Oslo area, Norway
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,510
QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
FF mirrrorless is a fantasy right now.
It's rather a bad dream than a fantasy, IMHO
06-08-2012, 06:00 AM - 1 Like   #615
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: 5th floor
Posts: 1,322
I love this Nikon forum. So informative.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
24x36mm, aps-c, camera, capacity, company, d4s, dont, ff, followers, frame, full-frame, idea, im, iso, k-3, lens, lenses, letter, light, lw/ph, nikon, page, pentax, release, time, traffic
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The full frame Pentax that never was dj_saunter Pentax DSLR Discussion 23 05-06-2011 04:06 AM
Pentax and Full Frame oppositz Pentax DSLR Discussion 58 03-18-2011 09:39 AM
Full frame pentax cem.kumuk Pentax DSLR Discussion 11 11-12-2010 03:13 PM
Pentax and Full Frame... Shutter-bug Photographic Technique 60 11-03-2010 10:03 AM
Pentax A 50/1.2 on Full Frame aegisphan Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 23 10-28-2010 04:16 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:00 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top