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06-14-2012, 09:06 AM   #631
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
But you need to buy $1000+ lenses to really get something out of the bigger sensor and the whole system is larger and heavier as well.

I'm more excited in a pro APS-C system because i love how carrier-able the Pentax system is right now.
have you looked at the full frame shots thread? many of the images are made with sub $1000 lenses and nikon has some excellent inexpensive primes. Like anything else you can buy better but they are more than usable (D800 is more demanding than a 24 mp will be)

06-14-2012, 09:51 AM   #632
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Yeah primes for got about those, been more looking at 24-70, 70-200 zooms.
06-14-2012, 09:56 AM   #633
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Yeah primes for got about those, been more looking at 24-70, 70-200 zooms.
the main reason i get tempted by a deal on a nikon FF is the good inexpensive primes, As long as it can focus a D lens (and it looks like the 600 can from the pictures) there are some amazing used values out there, and then their are the inexpensive g lenses as well. the 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 are great lenses (along with the 14-24) but I agree they are pricey - but no specific comparable lens exists in apsc so it's hard to price compare. Of course there is still the option to use the tokina/tamron/sigma lenses as well at the same prices for the same lenses on a pentax if they are available (well aside from the Tokinas where they are cheaper but nor WR or the same coating)
06-14-2012, 11:00 AM   #634
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Well the DA*16-50 and DA*50-135 has the same AOV and light gathering and i mostly shoot around f/4 with those lenses so i don't need to smaller DOF so i at least can easily compare this with FF system with 24-70, 70-200 lenses but it doesn't look that appealing.
It's quite hard to justify the extra price for me.
I rather take the big step and get an MF camera for in the studio.

06-14-2012, 11:08 AM   #635
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Well the DA*16-50 and DA*50-135 has the same AOV and light gathering and i mostly shoot around f/4 with those lenses so i don't need to smaller DOF so i at least can easily compare this with FF system with 24-70, 70-200 lenses but it doesn't look that appealing.
It's quite hard to justify the extra price for me.
I rather take the big step and get an MF camera for in the studio.
the real comparison is an f4 24-70 tough for all intents artistically, the main difference being low light shooting but FF sensor generally make up for that loss if they are the same generation allowing an extra stop of iso
06-14-2012, 11:35 AM   #636
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The D600 is rumored to have an in-body AF drive, so it would be able to focus the D lenses.

It's true that FF lenses tend to be more costly, but then again the Tamron 70-200mm and Sigma 24-70mm lenses are full frame. And for 700+ and 800+ each, they're cheaper than the DA*16-50 and 50-135 brand new and are much more reliable than the SDM as well.

Quick theoretical D600 comparison:

A brand new K-5 + DA16-50+ DA50-135 = $2977
A brand new D600 (priced $1799) + 24-70 + 70-200 = $3392
Difference = $415

Of course, there are a few key things to mention though. The K-5 is a 2-year-old camera model and users can always opt for cheaper lenses (17-50, 24-70, 70-200 sigma/tamrons) instead of the Pentax DA* series. Though of course, the AOV and FL wouldn't be equivalent to FF 24-75 or 75-200 anymore.

The $415 difference brings better noise control, better viewfinder and various other little things.

Now, imagine if Pentax releases the K-5 successor at - once again - $1,500. That camera, plus lenses, would have made it more expensive than the D600+lenses.

In a way, if the D600 is priced sub-$2,000, it'll be forcing other cameras to lower their prices as well. I would assume that it would squeeze into Pentax's profit margins too. And I can't imagine the K-5 successor to be $1,000 if the K-5 is still $909 and the K-30 is priced at $850, it's more likely the successor would be around $1,200.

Meaning the difference between the D600 + lenses and K-5 + lenses would be shrunk to about $100.

All that being said, this is assuming quite a number of things, but I think it certainly puts the D600's "game changer" role into perspective.

Last edited by tjk911; 06-14-2012 at 11:54 AM.
06-14-2012, 11:53 AM   #637
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If the D600 really does hit the shelves at $1500, then there really wouldn't be much room for a K-5 successor. It would have to be a speed demon to justify being APS-C. I think Pentax has more capability to stick a larger sensor to equalize their offering with the D600 than being able to make a fast sports camera.

Would someone rather buy the crop camera or FF camera if prices were pretty close and the other specifications were close? At that point there is no negative to buying a FF camera with a crop lens to start. You would be achieving the same thing with the crop camera, but have the potential to upgrade to a FF lens in the future and gain a real physical benefit. That also doesn't include finding an older low cost film lens. If lower cost FF is here, then there isn't much to say except Pentax would have to offer one to stay on a level footing product offering wise. I don't see the lack of a lens or two as a big issue at that point.
06-14-2012, 11:57 AM   #638
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Oh, and the D600 is rumored to have auto DX mode. Which means you can use crop lenses on it as well, driving your camera gear's overall price even lower.

A Pentax prosumer APS-C, or any other prosumer APS-C in fact, would have a tough time competing with that.

06-14-2012, 12:13 PM   #639
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The D7000 was announced for $1500; with the yen/usd exchange rates, I doubt they would launch a FF version for the same price.
06-14-2012, 12:28 PM   #640
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The D7000 was announced for $1500; with the yen/usd exchange rates, I doubt they would launch a FF version for the same price.
Agreed. They don't have to price it cheap, just cheap enough.
06-14-2012, 12:47 PM   #641
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It is also rumored to be D7000 sized. So inexpensive compact FF is here. Thats got my attention.
06-14-2012, 12:52 PM   #642
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
It is also rumored to be D7000 sized. So inexpensive compact FF is here. Thats got my attention.
the pictures sure look like a D7000. So if Pentax is bringing one out with the same sensor it will need to be better than the K5 to really capture people, at the same price as the D600 give or take $100, or it will have to be dramatically better including a new kit lens but still a few hundred less expensive than the D800 body only ($2499 with a 24-90 f4 sounds good if it is well featured)
06-14-2012, 01:02 PM   #643
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The K5 successor may very well be FF. Maybe we will see Pentax go, entry level, mid, high. with the entry and mid both being APSC. The high would be entry FF. I know I'm wishing in one hand and pooping in the other though.

The fact of the matter is, unless there is something going on much larger than we expect behind closed doors, FF is not a reality anytime quick as a Pentax user.

Nikon have obviously been planning this for a while with $500 FX 1.8 primes lenses being released, the new FX "budget" zooms all aimed at the prosumer price point. Then they hit you with the D600. This is Nikon's year and they are not going to let us forget it.

I love Pentax and I will not give up my K mount for anything. But I am buying a FF before October, that much is for certain. Nikon or Pentax. Preferably Pentax.... if the unicorn every shows up.
06-14-2012, 01:11 PM   #644
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All the discussion have been centered on how the D600 and D800 pricing would have a major impact on what the K-5 successor would/should be... what is more interesting to me is whether this could also impact the sales of existing D7000 and D300s stocks as well. Interesting time if you are in a market for a new DSLR for sure.
06-14-2012, 06:35 PM   #645
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QuoteOriginally posted by tjk911 Quote
The $415 difference brings better noise control, better viewfinder and various other little things.
Yeah but the D600 is entry level so it wont have the performance of the D800 also i think it's missing some buttons on the back, just like the K30 is missing some compared to the K5 for example.

So all in all, image quality of the D600 would probably be better but the K5 and K3 will have more features and probably more control buttons.


Also they might opt for 97% viewfinder to press the cost a bit.
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