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06-14-2012, 07:33 PM   #646
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
Does Pentax make a Landscape shooters camera at 24-36MP Hi-res sensor or a wedding shooters camera at 16-20MP high ISO sensor? Or both? How long would it take to create and build 12-16 lenses for this and a new flash system (the current flashes are not nearly good enough for a pro grade system).
.
I vote wedding shooter. Make light, nimble FF geared toward events shooting. Produce it in a white/silver matrimony special edition. Thus, will they have their niche.

No, I'm not kidding. As much as Pentax has been an advanced amateurs camera company, I think it's failure has been to market itself to a some kind of pro buyer. They can't match the general marketing reach of CaNikon, so they should specify.

OTOH, I just had somebody tell me I needed to go FF last week. I told him what I do doesn't require it, though I was interested in seeing if the K5 is replaced with a FF body. He then asked me why I don't just get a Canon. I left it alone...

06-14-2012, 08:41 PM   #647
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Viewfinder coverage is supposedly 100% for FX and 97% for crop, but I can definitely see it having possibly slightly less controls. At the very least though I would assume it would have similar controls as the D7000, which isn't lacking at all. Even though so far I've loved Pentax's ergonomics and control placements so much more.

But even the D800 is fairly sparse in controls - unlike the D4. I don't think they can lessen the controls any more than that.

I finally got myself a decent paying job so I might be doing an FF upgrade relatively soon. I can't convince myself to spend money on a system (and lenses) that I feel might not be sufficient in the future.

D600 has me pumped. Pentax, please respond.
06-14-2012, 08:55 PM   #648
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QuoteOriginally posted by tjk911 Quote
D600 has me pumped. Pentax, please respond.
D600 at $1500 is (IMO) not likely. $1800... maybe.

Still.... A very interesting option, and a great alternative to the D800. There are a ton of nice AF-D lenses available, and enticing new AF-G lenses...

And the 1.2x, 5:4 and 1.5x crop modes with 24MP gives you a lot of MP in the frame, so any DX (aps-c) lenses will still be able to produce big, detailed prints.

I also don't see how high-end aps-c DSLR goes unscathed, if this is true. (and if it is $1500, we're moving through the looking-glass, people )


(Right Field, taken yesterday with the $185 35 f/1.8G (APS-C lens) in 1.2x crop mode on D800) :




All Pentax would really need to do to respond to this camera is release a FF K-5 body, with the K-30's updated AF. This D600 is basically a FF D7000.

But that lens roadmap doesn't show much...




.

Last edited by jsherman999; 06-14-2012 at 09:10 PM.
06-14-2012, 10:40 PM   #649
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Canon should worry more than Nikon, I expect the D600 has better IQ than the 5d mk3.

In fact, my brand new K-5 is better than the 5d Mkii
(well I did one test shot of a subject at work, and the better DR of the K-5 was clearly visible. Besides, my DA16-45 seemed a bit sharper than the 24-105. Very unscientific, but still fun to see how good my new K-5 is )

06-14-2012, 11:49 PM   #650
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The release of the D600 budget full-frame (which is a compact size and probably weather sealed, can meter old manual lenses without the use of DOF preview, and has screw drive af motor) dslr will force a lot of pentax users seeking 35mm sensor to jump ships or add to their system. We can defend the aps-c all we can, but we can never compare the results between the two sensors. Pentax-Ricoh really needs to release a full-frame Pentax dslr this year for many of their loyal users.

Last edited by richard balonglong; 06-15-2012 at 01:15 AM.
06-15-2012, 12:17 AM   #651
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QuoteOriginally posted by richard balonglong Quote
We can defend the aps-c all we can, but we can never compare the results between the two sensors.
Why not? For low-ISO shots with high DR-requirements, I would lose IQ if I traded my K-5 for a 5dMkIII. I thought the difference was rather theoretical until I've now seen it with my own eyes (again: as said above, the test was quite unscientific, and I compared to a MkII, but I don't think the MkIII is better).
06-15-2012, 01:03 AM   #652
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Why not? For low-ISO shots with high DR-requirements, I would lose IQ if I traded my K-5 for a 5dMkIII. I thought the difference was rather theoretical until I've now seen it with my own eyes (again: as said above, the test was quite unscientific, and I compared to a MkII, but I don't think the MkIII is better).
Yup, for image quality we can. But they are still different in terms of format, the K-5 still has a small sensor and the 5DmkIII has bigger sensor thus providing the photographer more control on DOF. I remember a forum that comparing side by side against the Nikon D800 and Pentax 645D, they said that the D800 has better DR or IQ. But still those two cameras are still different in terms of format or size of sensor, and again the medium-format provides the photographer more control on DOF.
Here, what would you choose for your photography, an aps-c camera or a better IQ/DR micro-four-thirds camera?
06-15-2012, 01:41 AM   #653
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QuoteOriginally posted by richard balonglong Quote
Here, what would you choose for your photography, an aps-c camera or a better IQ/DR micro-four-thirds camera?
In the end lenses rule, the OM-D with the 12mm will be hard to beat by anything larger if it doesn't have a very good lens mounted!

06-15-2012, 03:24 AM   #654
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
But you need to buy $1000+ lenses to really get something out of the bigger sensor and the whole system is larger and heavier as well.

I'm more excited in a pro APS-C system because i love how carrier-able the Pentax system is right now.

To 'really get something'? The DA 40mm is what, $350 or something right now? How much does a 24mm f/1.8 APS-C cost and weigh?
06-15-2012, 05:15 AM   #655
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
To 'really get something'? The DA 40mm is what, $350 or something right now? How much does a 24mm f/1.8 APS-C cost and weigh?
Well, you've hit the nerve.

The current APS-C Pentax lens line-up is grossly over-priced if FF cameras coming in at $2,000 are on the horizon.

Especially the DA Limiteds.

We already see Pentax positioning DA lenses at lower price points with the DA 40/2.8 XS, the new 50/1.8, and the 35/2.4.

But they need to go much further and drop the 21, 15, 35 macro, and 70 primes down at least 2 price points each as well.

This will be the trick with APS-C: getting prices down on much the same trajectory as the sensor price made the format dominant.

The K-30 is a very interesting camera. If it drops down to a US$650 body, its feature set and lens array is excellent. Consumer-friendly AA batteries, pro-styling, WR, and.....what really caught my eye.......a pentaprism, not a pentamirror.

That suggests a top-of-the-line APS-C K-5 "pro" model can hit the $950 price point at the outset.

A $1,000 difference between APS-C and FF on bodies is a lot of $$$ for the market. The vast majority of people cannot afford FF. But APS-C has been milking too-high lens prices, and that has to change.

I cannot see FF dropping below $2,000 right now. Makes no sense for Nikon, and the camera to do that with, the D700, has apparently been lifted from production. The resolution monster D800 cannot compete with the D600 semi-resolution monster if the price gap is too wide. I predict they will be closer in price than some of the more wild predictions. This makes more sense with the D400 also rumoured to be on the horizon. I suspect that camera is the $1,500 offer.
06-15-2012, 06:02 AM   #656
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rumours on the D400 are actually 1799 Aristophanes, I can see it dropping after 6 months to a year to 1499 though . for me the D600 makes sense with an initial price of 2199 or 2299, and a drop to 1999 next year. even at these prices it will relieve the production pressure on the D800 which is still impossible to get in most stores

you are right on the DA lenses, Nikons trick has been to make mostly FX lenses in the 1.8 G series for very reasonable prices. you can get from 24 to 85 for 550 or less when you include the older D series as well, for zooms it's tougher, the new 24-85 is reasonable 600, but for the uwa and tele you are over a grand each to start. OTOH there are many thrid party options for nikon in the zoom category as well.

Nikon really has methodically planned this year, I'll bet it's been the plan for at least 4 years and this is the year they pull out all the guns. for the most part it only affects Pentax by keeping them marginal but they really have nowhere to go but up, so measured success is easier. Canon OTOH look to be set to take some big hits in the next couple of years. Good on Nikon, I've always liked their Kit . Hope they knock Canon off that top spot, maybe with some help form Pentax grabbing share from them as well
06-15-2012, 06:39 AM   #657
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If Pentax comes with a 2200-2500$ FF dslr, it'd better have an aperture simulator, otherwise, for sure, many people will go.
I wouldn't go but I'd be VERY much pissed since even the D7000 can drive old lenses easily. K5 can't

If D600 can too, Pentax is screwed...
06-15-2012, 07:11 AM   #658
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
If Pentax comes with a 2200-2500$ FF dslr, it'd better have an aperture simulator, otherwise, for sure, many people will go.
I wouldn't go but I'd be VERY much pissed since even the D7000 can drive old lenses easily. K5 can't

If D600 can too, Pentax is screwed...
Since there appears to be something of a "retro" or "tactile" Renaissance going in industrial design, I think a way for Pentax to differentiate itself is to create FF lenses with aperture rings.

If some P&S cameras have them, then why not a DSLR?

It's a worthwhile option if one is looking to NOT be a clone of Canikon.

For the APS-C line-up they are unnecessary because of cost.

Pentax proved with the MZ-S that they can innovate (same with the K-01) and this is one area where they can be different.
06-15-2012, 07:12 AM   #659
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
If Pentax comes with a 2200-2500$ FF dslr, it'd better have an aperture simulator, otherwise, for sure, many people will go.
I wouldn't go but I'd be VERY much pissed since even the D7000 can drive old lenses easily. K5 can't

If D600 can too, Pentax is screwed...
Nikon lenses need to have had the Ai upgrade for them to work. that is the equivalent of using an A lens. Pentax has no issues with A lenses AFAIK. That stupid metering tab was a fugly solution IMO
06-15-2012, 09:32 AM   #660
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Nikon lenses need to have had the Ai upgrade for them to work. that is the equivalent of using an A lens. Pentax has no issues with A lenses AFAIK. That stupid metering tab was a fugly solution IMO
Ow, thought that worked with Pre-AI lenses... Mmm I still think aperture simulator should be there though, at that price I'd be pissed.
Let FF Pentax cams get the simulator (even low ends FF when they'll appear...), it just makes sense.
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