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06-15-2012, 11:44 AM   #661
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Mmm I still think aperture simulator should be there though, at that price I'd be pissed.
What is an aperture simulator? Are you talking about a DoF preview lever/button?

06-15-2012, 11:54 AM   #662
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QuoteOriginally posted by RXrenesis8 Quote
What is an aperture simulator? Are you talking about a DoF preview lever/button?
if that is what he meant then of course it is on all the top level pentax models
06-15-2012, 01:58 PM   #663
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
To 'really get something'? The DA 40mm is what, $350 or something right now? How much does a 24mm f/1.8 APS-C cost and weigh?
I already explained myself to Eddie, i wasn't looking at the primes but the standard f/2.8 zooms

Besides i'm looking in a different market then you're, the EU.
06-15-2012, 06:32 PM   #664
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OK - but the new Nikon 24-85 should be lighter than the 16-50...

06-16-2012, 08:08 AM   #665
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Maybe but it isn't a constant aperture so i wont consider it since having a constant aperture is handy for flash photography.
06-16-2012, 12:56 PM   #666
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A pentax-designed 24-70 f/4.5 would be lighter than the equivalent pentax-designed 16-50 f/2.8. Whether or not Pentax would actually think there's enough of a market for the f/4.5 is in doubt, though.
06-16-2012, 01:46 PM   #667
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QuoteOriginally posted by RXrenesis8 Quote
What is an aperture simulator? Are you talking about a DoF preview lever/button?
No, I mean Pentax should uncriple the mount and offer proper CW metering (or even better matrix metering, it is possible, Nikon F6 does it) with K and M lenses. For that price, they shoud do it. For 1500$ though I understand why they don't (I don't agree but I see why they wouldn't).
06-16-2012, 04:43 PM   #668
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Nikon lenses need to have had the Ai upgrade for them to work. that is the equivalent of using an A lens. Pentax has no issues with A lenses AFAIK. That stupid metering tab was a fugly solution IMO
An A lens allows the camera to control aperture, an AI lens just tells the camera what aperture it's set at. Same as K and M lenses. The most important difference though that any F mount lens can be (reasonably) easily upgraded to be an AI lens, a pre-A Pentax lens can not be made into an A lens (except in rare cases, or with difficult mechanical modifications).

The Nikon worlds closest equivalent of A lenses is AI-s.

06-16-2012, 05:54 PM   #669
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
A pentax-designed 24-70 f/4.5 would be lighter than the equivalent pentax-designed 16-50 f/2.8. Whether or not Pentax would actually think there's enough of a market for the f/4.5 is in doubt, though.
Actually it would be the same because bout the same amount off glass goes into it, sure the 24-70 is of simplere design so slightly lighter but the 70-200 will be heavier then the 50-135 so all in all there is no gain or lost.

Beside i would wish for APS-C mount to address some limitations but i doubt we will ever see that
06-16-2012, 07:38 PM   #670
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Actually it would be the same because bout the same amount off glass goes into it, sure the 24-70 is of simplere design so slightly lighter but the 70-200 will be heavier then the 50-135 so all in all there is no gain or lost.
I think a 70-200mm f/4.3 is/would be lighter than a 50-135 f/2.8. The canon f/4 is about 3% heavier than the Pentax 50-135 (somthing like 705 grams and 685 grams), and of course Pentax lenses usually run a bit lighter than Canon.

With the ability to crop , a 70-200 f/4 with FF would be like having two lenses in one... in APS-C equivalent a f/4 would be like having a 50-135 f/2.8 AND a 70-200 f/4 lens in one lens.

Last edited by ElJamoquio; 06-16-2012 at 07:49 PM.
06-17-2012, 03:30 AM   #671
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I think a 70-200mm f/4.3 is/would be lighter than a 50-135 f/2.8.
No it won't because because you also adjusted the aperture so the amount of glass going into it is roughly the same, only the amount of elements and such will give the differnce and since you need a larger image circle with FF that would also add slightly more glass. So lets say in use the weight is the same.

And you proof so with your own example and Pentax are lighter because they are APS-C lenses.


QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
With the ability to crop , a 70-200 f/4 with FF would be like having two lenses in one... in APS-C equivalent a f/4 would be like having a 50-135 f/2.8 AND a 70-200 f/4 lens in one lens.
That's a bit of a strange thing to say because DOF isn't everything, what about light gathering? sure you can bump up the ISO of FF but that's not helpful for image quality because you will loose all advantage you had over APS-C so why bother?

Last edited by Anvh; 06-17-2012 at 03:37 AM.
06-17-2012, 10:04 AM   #672
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06-26-2012, 11:15 AM   #673
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If you want a good summary about sensor cross-licensing design and fab, the Thom Hogan June 22/2012 mini-article is very good:

Thom Hogan's Nikon Camera, DSLR, Lens, Flash, and Book site

There is so much cross-licensing going on these days as sensors have not yet achieved commodity maturity that it makes sense for foundries like Sony to get locked-in supply deals with major customers who also supply licenses, like Nikon.

It is pretty clear that Nikon has been driving a lot of the advances in FF tech, and that Sony fabs the sensors in Nikon's FF flagships. But Sony also wants some of Nikon's tech post-Alpha A900/850 runs. It's probably far cheaper for Sony to license from Nikon but then give Nikon exclusivity of supply for a period of time on an equitable basis for both. This is common in lots of industries.

From what Thom says and from others in the industry , it is simply not possible to buy a sensor off the shelf. You need to get in at the original design level. Pentax, Nikon, and Sony share APS-C sensors and each appears to do this uniquely off the nearly same sensor.

To a limited degree (and with obvious decaying shelf life at each product cycle) Sony needs Nikon and Nikon needs Sony. Do either need Pentax? Canon needs no one. Fuji needs no one. Leica needs someone else. Samsung pretends it needs no one.
06-26-2012, 12:05 PM   #674
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote

From what Thom says ... it is simply not possible to buy a sensor off the shelf. You need to get in at the original design level. Pentax, Nikon, and Sony share APS-C sensors and each appears to do this uniquely off the nearly same sensor.
As Pentax-Ricoh could do with a FF sensor, bought/licensed from Sony and/or Aptina, or even another party.

Thom's article was interesting, but if you're trying to find a "Pentax simply cannot buy a FF sensor!" hint in there... You won't find it.

QuoteQuote:
To a limited degree (and with obvious decaying shelf life at each product cycle) Sony needs Nikon and Nikon needs Sony. Do either need Pentax? Canon needs no one. Fuji needs no one. Leica needs someone else. Samsung pretends it needs no one.
New customers are always needed, especially these days, especially ones the size of Ricoh, who has multiple existing and in-design products that could use product from a Sensor design/fab shop. Sony, Aptina, etc, have plenty of fab capacity and licensing leeway to answer Ricoh's call (if it every comes.)


.
06-26-2012, 12:25 PM   #675
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Actually Sony is lacking in fab capacity. The only acquisitions of Sony recently is more fab capacity. The Sony retail ship is sinking but Sony Semi and Industrial has found its feet once it got over losing out to Korea on TV's. Sony is doubling down on fab capacity. They are by far the dominant supplier in the industry.

The Hogan point is that you really only source a sensor from design phase in, and you have to deal with multiple licensing issues, likely including those held by Sony and probably Nikon. That requires years of lead time. When Hoya closed the door that made it a timing issue for Ricoh. I suspect FF is in the works, but we are about 12-20 months from delivery. The specs and supply rumors from the Nikon camp have some weight, but not on price and timing.
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