Originally posted by Class A Again, that's not a patent that has any relevance for the sensors we are discussing.
You don't know that.
You would have to disassemble the actual sensor to know which patents apply where.
That's usually done with lawyers in mind:
Image Sensors World: Intellectual Ventures Sues Nikon over Image Sensor Patents
For all we know Sony has banks of Nikon photolithography machines.
Originally posted by Class A Yes, but requesting certain specs is different from engineering the solution.
Uh, no....it is not. I am actually overseeing a project right now where the engineer (building science, I am on the risk management/insurance side) specs are vetted jointly between supplier and customer. Regular meetings. Both have surety bonds.
Originally posted by Class A Someone who produces the best sensor bar none could afford to do that. It's not the case that a sensor has to be custom built for a particular company or camera.
A few cameras benefit from specific solutions, but the vast majority will work with a generic sensor as long as it fits the general bill.
But we're not talking about generic sensors, are we?
We're talking about a relatively tiny market for FF and even larger sensors. The 645D, Leica M9, Hassleblad sensors, all have custom-designed features. The Leica M9 sensor has Leica-designed micro-lenses. Leica had to develop their own in-house capacity to do that as they had zero experience in anything like that and there were no "generic" solutions.
It's like saying a stock car is really a stock car.
In fact, if I were Nikon I wold pay a premium to get my guys in on the design phase so I can ground my people and then shop around for exactly what I want next time, or retain the option to move production in-house (like Apple with ARM chips).
For my flagship stuff there is no way I am going to allow that to come from a generic block of wafer. There goes my $3,000 price point.
Look at Fuji. They make it a point of design and marketing to differentiate their sensors, especially on their X-series equipment. For their consumer line, they buy from Sony or make themselves. I still have my F40fd with the SuperCCD, bought because it was the best low light sensor out there for a compact a the time.
And what about upcoming advances like stacked CMOS and backlighting? Do you think Nikon will just wait for those to come o the open market? Or will they get in at the design phase to make those products work best for their current asset base?
Originally posted by Class A But apparently it's the Sony sensor design tricks that make their current sensors so dominant. This relegates Nikon to a customer as opposed to someone sharing IP. A mighty customer, indeed, but due to volume orders not because they own some of the engineering IP.
Sony is dominant because the have the most production capacity. It is more likely not that they independently created pixie dust tech in isolation fro their customers, or worked off of some faxed int spec sheet. More likely Sony's engineers and Nikon's meet regularly about design and quality. Sony says why they can do and Nikon asks them to tweak it to their own parameters. Certain routines will require licenses (Motorola and TI hold bucketfuls for this stuff) or methodologies become time-delimited and in contract. As might as Nikon is as a customer (100% of Sony's FF capacity) I bet Sony only lets them in the door of the foundry with a chequebook.
What's odd about Sony is they seem to not know how to get the best out of their own sensors!
Will Pentax get in? From where I sit, it's all about price. Pentax has too little volume to put out a FF camera body much above $2,000.