[Fontan]

Because camera body (wise) Pentax isn't far off the mark from almost being viewed as yet another Sigma camera debockle. Add to that the rather slim variety of third party products

Eh, then why not shoot with a body other than Pentax???

[Blue]

While it is good to have 3rd party support, most don't get into Pentax solely to use Sigma, Tamron or Tokina glass. The fact is, Tokina glass is nearly 1/2 what the equivalent Pentax glass is price wise. An example is the Tokina 35mm/2.8 Macro compared to the DA 35/2.8 Ltd macro. It is $299 in Nikon F-mount.

[Medium FormatPro]

Eh, then why not shoot with a body other than Pentax

I only use Pentax camera bodies when I really need the 1.5 factor added in. Otherwise I have quite the variety of Sony and Nikon products. If Sony stopped making cameras today it would take Pentax at least two years to catch up. For Pentax versus Nikon; it will simply never happen; Nikon has four bodies that a Pentax could never touch.

Pentax is very rarely used by true career professionals, even more so by creative profesionals. And the company doesn't seem to be willing to address it anytime soon

[Fontan]

I only use Pentax camera bodies when I really need the 1.5 factor added in. Otherwise I have quite the variety of Sony and Nikon products. If Sony stopped making cameras today it would take Pentax at least two years to catch up. For Pentax versus Nikon; it will simply never happen; Nikon has four bodies that a Pentax could never touch.

Pentax is very rarely used by true career professionals, even more so by creative profesionals. And the company doesn't seem to be willing to address it anytime soon

So, going back to the original question, for at least someone like you who is a pro (assumption based on your handle name), Pentax gaining market share will not do a whole lot.

Right??

My question is this:

There must be more "casual" photographers than "avid photographers" in that Pentax marketing guy says it himself that the most of their DSLR purchasers will not buy no more than one lens other than the kit lens that comes with a body, and that may even be a stretch. So, if Pentax is to gain more market share, they need to cater to the likings of casual photographers, not to that of serious photographers. I really don't think that by this company gaining market share will not do anything for most members who spend countless hours posting about his or her "needs." For the same reasons, if Pentax's sole purpose of existence was to please the needs of pros and avid photographers, they will go under very quickly. No??

All I am saying is that if one is really serious about photography, other than 645D, this brand just may not be for you. That is all.

[geojazz]

I'm Sorry, I have been shooting Pentax for over 30 years and I am a PRO. I have shot everything from Weddings to Product with both Pentax 35mm/Med Format and with 4 digital Bodies (K10,K20, K7 and now K5). Any Photographer worth their salt will tell you it is less about the gear than the person who is taking the picture. If you have a Good Camera and good Glass and you have the skill you can take a Pro Photo with a good camera. I would love Pentax to come out with a FF Camera no question about it. I have quite a few Pro level Lenses that I Purchased for my PZ-1P and MZ-S that would work great on a equivalent FF Pentax Body, but I will not jump ship because it is not coming the day after tomorrow or even in March. So to those of you who say that Serious Photographers don't use Pentax .... I say to you " I DO" , and I'm damm proud of it!

[maxfield_photo]

I'm Sorry, I have been shooting Pentax for over 30 years and I am a PRO. I have shot everything from Weddings to Product with both Pentax 35mm/Med Format and with 4 digital Bodies (K10,K20, K7 and now K5). Any Photographer worth their salt will tell you it is less about the gear than the person who is taking the picture. If you have a Good Camera and good Glass and you have the skill you can take a Pro Photo with a good camera. I would love Pentax to come out with a FF Camera no question about it. I have quite a few Pro level Lenses that I Purchased for my PZ-1P and MZ-S that would work great on a equivalent FF Pentax Body, but I will not jump ship because it is not coming the day after tomorrow or even in March. So to those of you who say that Serious Photographers don't use Pentax .... I say to you " I DO" , and I'm damm proud of it!

I think the problem though is at some point "Serious photographers don't use Pentax" becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. It's hard to say which came first, the chicken or the egg, but either pro photographers believe this or Pentax HQ believes this and as a result the perception is there Pentax is an amateur's company. I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just saying that that's the predominant perception.

Like you Geo, I have been shooting Pentax for 30 years, and I consider myself good enough to be a pro (though I have chosen up to this point not to sell my work). I don't care about other photographers, I just wish the company believed in themselves enough to take the plunge and say "Hey, you know what, there are people who want to do more with our cameras. It may not prove as lucrative immediately, but let's make some products for them." And maybe, just maybe, the whole perception about the brand would begin to change.

[GeneV]

I think the problem though is at some point "Serious photographers don't use Pentax" becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. It's hard to say which came first, the chicken or the egg, but either pro photographers believe this or Pentax HQ believes this and as a result the perception is there Pentax is an armature's company. I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just saying that that's the predominant perception.

Like you Geo, I have been shooting Pentax for 30 years, and I consider myself good enough to be a pro (though I have chosen up to this point not to sell my work). I don't care about other photographers, I just wish the company believed in themselves enough to take the plunge and say "Hey, you know what, there are people who want to do more with our cameras. It may not prove as lucrative immediately, but let's make some products for them." And maybe, just maybe, the whole perception about the brand would begin to change.

And maybe if more pros did use Pentax, we would also get some third party pro accessories that other lines have, like RF flash triggers which work with P-TTL, for one. And then more pros would see the line as an alternative, and it builds.

[geojazz]

I think the problem though is at some point "Serious photographers don't use Pentax" becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. It's hard to say which came first, the chicken or the egg, but either pro photographers believe this or Pentax HQ believes this and as a result the perception is there Pentax is an amateur's company. I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just saying that that's the predominant perception.

Like you Geo, I have been shooting Pentax for 30 years, and I consider myself good enough to be a pro (though I have chosen up to this point not to sell my work). I don't care about other photographers, I just wish the company believed in themselves enough to take the plunge and say "Hey, you know what, there are people who want to do more with our cameras. It may not prove as lucrative immediately, but let's make some products for them." And maybe, just maybe, the whole perception about the brand would begin to change.

Maxfield, I agree and we really do need to band together and force the issue. I believe that Pentax/Ricoh could come out with a FF In a K5 body with minimal expenditure for the Enthusiast/Pro (similar to the D600 and the new Canon) then have a higher level camera specifically designed for Professionals ( which i wold love in the MZ-S body which was one of the most well designed film cameras ever). I am always asked what I shoot with , most guesses are Nikon or Canon full frame when People see my work until I pull out my Pentax Bodies. I truly think that creativtity is not automation, though having radio triggers that work with PTTL is nice people forget the basics of Photography (total control & capture of light) which is done in MANUAL not AUTO modes. A good Flash in manual mode and properly used will give the most amazing results, just like in Studio a good Flash head , Lightmeter and appropriate light modifiers will give you results that should be in a magazine if you have the SKILL.

I have attached a file just to prove my point, shot with a K5 this past Sunday only converted to B&W and softened , one Flash head everything Manual. The people who say that Pentax isn't good don't understand the Art or Science of Photography! Until we meet again keep on clicking my fellow Pentaxians!!!

[Norseman]

Pentax was never "the Pros' camera." Though lots of Pros used Pentax! Even back in the 60s and 70s when I worked for Honeywell, we (Pentax Spotmatic, Ks & ES-ESII) had the dominant market share--but not a dominate position in the Pro market. Pentax led the way with new innovations and even was the first camera to have integrated flash control (SP IIa) with the Honeywell Strobonar.

My point is Pentax has been an innovator, without the Pro market. And can still be.

However, there used to be a Japan quasi-government organization -- a consortium of the camera makers -- that agreed what market (and type of products) each brand would produce. Don't know if it was the JCII (Japan Camera Industry Institute) or some other entity-- the Asahi people would not talk much about it. But many of the product ideas Honeywell asked Asahi for were not in the agreed "category" for Pentax. It could be that the Full Frame issue falls into that kind of "agreement" (if that industry wide organization still exists).

Just speculating--been a long time since I knew the Asahi people.

[Blue]

Pentax was never "the Pros' camera." Though lots of Pros used Pentax! Even back in the 60s and 70s when I worked for Honeywell, we (Pentax Spotmatic, Ks & ES-ESII) had the dominant market share--but not a dominate position in the Pro market. Pentax led the way with new innovations and even was the first camera to have integrated flash control (SP IIa) with the Honeywell Strobonar.

My point is Pentax has been an innovator, without the Pro market. And can still be.

However, there used to be a Japan quasi-government organization -- a consortium of the camera makers -- that agreed what market (and type of products) each brand would produce. Don't know if it was the JCII (Japan Camera Industry Institute) or some other entity-- the Asahi people would not talk much about it. But many of the product ideas Honeywell asked Asahi for were not in the agreed "category" for Pentax. It could be that the Full Frame issue falls into that kind of "agreement" (if that industry wide organization still exists).

Just speculating--been a long time since I knew the Asahi people.

the JCII folded up around 1990 give or take a year.

[fastbackcuda67]

I do think pentax needs to keep up with the others. FF is going to be the new norm, so they should get on the band wagon. But I do think there is alot of FF lens owners that would like to have their lens prices go even higher to make more money.

[Kunzite]

I doubt everyone would suddenly be able to afford $2000+ cameras but yes, they should do it.

[lguckert79]

no dought we need a full frame pentax has been able to put out great cameras and no matter what im not jumping ship i love my pentax camera even if they do not go FF im riding it out

[Medium FormatPro]

I doubt everyone would suddenly be able to afford $2000+ cameras

Not so sure about that one. Factor in the cost of the body and how many lens' everyone has on average. Add to that items like lighting and other gadgets.

[mecrox]

Not so sure about that one. Factor in the cost of the body and how many lens' everyone has on average. Add to that items like lighting and other gadgets.

FWIW, I've worked out that jumping ship to Nikon FF is actually cheaper here than continuing with Pentax APS-C, if I continue to purchase the Pentax items I would like eventually to own. The reasons are the eyebrow-raising price of new Pentax equipment here and the large market for lightly used or nearly new Nikon equipment at reduced prices from which to start a lens collection if, like me, your Pentax glass is mostly APS-C only. The comparison falls down if you then plunge into high-end Nikon FF glass but unless you are a professional there's little need to unless, perhaps, you've gone for a D800. If Pentax do produce an FF they will need to be careful that a chunk of users doesn't conclude that it's more cost effective to leave than to upgrade within the brand, especially when things like after-sales and warranty services are factored in.