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10-22-2012, 06:46 PM   #931
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
It is already too late... so 7 years too late.

Well, we agree on something. They could have been one of the first with ff but screwed around with it.

10-22-2012, 07:27 PM   #932
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FF

How important is it to not buy DA lenses if there is a chnace to have a FF in the future??
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10-22-2012, 07:35 PM   #933
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QuoteOriginally posted by The dog walker Quote
How important is it to not buy DA lenses if there is a chnace to have a FF in the future?? Cory
Considering that nobody knows when the Pentax FF will come out, I'd say buying DA lenses now is still a pretty good investment if you're a Pentax users.

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10-22-2012, 07:42 PM   #934
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Considering that nobody knows when the Pentax FF will come out, I'd say buying DA lenses now is still a pretty good investment if you're a Pentax users.
I would have to think that should there be a ff Pentax, it would have a crop mode, a la Nikon.

10-22-2012, 07:56 PM   #935
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
It is already too late... so 7 years too late.
It is 7 years late. It may be too late to gain a major share in that part of the market, but maybe that's just in the short term. It may be too late to ultimately save the company from financial ruin, but maybe that part of the market won't come to dominate the DSLR segment after all. Things change. Markets grow and contract. Saying something is "too late" by itself is saying more about how the teller feels than about the subject.

It is clearly too late for those who have moved to other systems that do have offerings in this sub-segment, as it will be too late for those who move between and when Pentax does offer their own product. It is not too late for those who haven't moved, and aren't intending to move in the short term. It is also not too late for those who haven't yet entered the market.

Glass half full, or half empty? Your choice.
10-22-2012, 10:16 PM   #936
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The glas seem to be rather full...

QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
It is 7 years late... It is clearly too late for those who have moved to other systems that do have offerings in this sub-segment, as it will be too late for those who move between and when Pentax does offer their own product. It is not too late for those who haven't moved, and aren't intending to move in the short term. It is also not too late for those who haven't yet entered the market.

Glass half full, or half empty? Your choice.
Half full, or complete full as I see it. I'm among those who haven't yet entered the market, and are very much pleased by the fact that Pentax is a brand which has produced weather sealed products for many years now, and also camera houses that seem to have nice to grip to both hands. Those two factors makes me want to buy Pentax, and I truly hope that the new owner Ricoh can do something really good with this ownership. Just to start with the goal of being the producer of the best camera and lens products for outdoor conditions, is worth much in my eyes. From this platform, Ricoh Pentax can go forward and produce pretty much anything they want, and I wish them good luck in this approach!
10-23-2012, 08:48 AM   #937
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
It is clearly too late for those who have moved to other systems that do have offerings in this sub-segment, as it will be too late for those who move between and when Pentax does offer their own product. It is not too late for those who haven't moved, and aren't intending to move in the short term. It is also not too late for those who haven't yet entered the market.
You're forgetting the new users like me who only or for the most part have DA lenses, it would mean that if i go to FF that i need to buy new lenses.
It's then very easy for me to go to Nikon or Canon and they offer a big range of FF lenses.
Pentax need to start up a whole FF line with lenses so that will take at least 4 years before they have something respectable.

The only market Pentax have now directly available are the people who have a nice collection of Pentax film lenses.
How many of those will buy a FF dslr... 10% depending the price?

I doubt the FF market will be profitable for them and if they come to the same conclusion they won't make a FF since it's a company and they need to make a profit.
10-23-2012, 12:42 PM   #938
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
You're forgetting the new users like me who only or for the most part have DA lenses, it would mean that if i go to FF that i need to buy new lenses.
It's then very easy for me to go to Nikon or Canon and they offer a big range of FF lenses.
The same logic applies to present-day owners of other non-FF systems, though, or even those who swap FF systems. It's a consideration, obviously, but it's not necessarily a complete blocker.
QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Pentax need to start up a whole FF line with lenses so that will take at least 4 years before they have something respectable.

The only market Pentax have now directly available are the people who have a nice collection of Pentax film lenses.
How many of those will buy a FF dslr... 10% depending the price?
That's quite another matter, and what constitutes "respectable" depends on the market needs. Growing a new system does happen elsewhere, too, and you'd have to expect it would be a limitation. This one has been argued out elsewhere ad infinitum.
QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
I doubt the FF market will be profitable for them and if they come to the same conclusion they won't make a FF since it's a company and they need to make a profit.
Of course, that may be what happens, too. However, I would expect that Ricoh's deeper pockets means that they have a better chance of turning a low margin market entry (or even an initial loss leader) into a profitable line as the business grows. Again, this scenario has been argued over here, many times.

None of this necessarily makes it "too late" for Pentax, but there's no denying they are late to enter this part of the market. Considering the early setback with the MZ-D, they did well to come back with the *istD, but they adopted a single-product strategy for too long after that, and I believe that era put them behind the 8-ball. Nonetheless, they have evolved in the APS-C segment with strong products that put them in good stead for further expansion. Growing a new sensor line will take time, undeniably, but it isn't an impossible task, just a Herculean one.

10-23-2012, 12:50 PM   #939
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Never too late to create a great FF camera that is small, light and competitively capable.
10-24-2012, 01:32 PM   #940
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Growing a new sensor line will take time, undeniably, but it isn't an impossible task, just a Herculean one.
Pentax has already done that twice recently, 645D and Q.
10-24-2012, 05:14 PM   #941
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A FF camera that is small, light, competitively capable, weather sealed, nice grips..

QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Never too late to create a great FF camera that is small, light and competitively capable.
And weather sealed, with nice grips for both hands.
10-25-2012, 10:40 AM   #942
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Never too late to create a great FF camera that is small, light and competitively capable.
competitively capable that is the problem and.... how big is the market?
Canon and Nikon already have a good share of users and upgrading a camera or buying a new lens for their system is logical but how many of those will switch to a different brand?
10-25-2012, 10:43 AM   #943
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Pentax has already done that twice recently, 645D and Q.
645D brought something new on the market and at a good price point.
Also MF their are still a lot of MF shooters, shooting on film but how many FF shooters still use film?
What i'm trying to say is that the FF market is already switched to digital mostly while MF market still has quite a lot of film shooters, so the market share is potentially bigger
10-25-2012, 10:56 AM   #944
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
The same logic applies to present-day owners of other non-FF systems, though, or even those who swap FF systems. It's a consideration, obviously, but it's not necessarily a complete blocker.
Well not fully, the pro line lenses of Canon and Nikon are FF so you can have a non-ff system but still buy the FF line lenses, so you can roll into the FF line of camera's with a share of lenses that you own.

If you bought all Pentax lenses new that last 4 years they are mostly all for only APS-C so they are missing that market.
And what i actually mean is what is withholding me to go to FF right now, if i need it i can get Canon or Nikon, it will cost me just as much as moving to Pentax FF since i need to buy the lenses new.
So the people that need or want FF and mostly onlly have DA lenses, those havent invested into FF system yet so they are not bound in anyway.


Your talk about APS-C is great but you're talking about evolving, that is something Pentax can't do with FF since they need to start at zero basically.
10-26-2012, 06:53 AM   #945
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"... but how many of those will switch to a different brand?..."
Many friends are already switched (Canon and Nikon).

For me same history, i think's going to Nikon, the D600 Is wonderfull for me, many dynamics (More 14 Ev), very good Snr (Better than k5), good viewfinder,
more choice with all news optics Sigma, Tamron etc...
I like pentax, i keep my old K-x and all my optics (FF and Aps-c), but i keep all my futures € / $ for other brands, no problem,
I think Nikon be very happy receive my €, If pentax not want, no problems !
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