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01-24-2012, 03:25 PM   #121
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Pentax could be testing the waters with the new K-01, and could be keeping the prospect of a full-frame under consideration. Based on how the mirrorless aps-c k-mount camera does, they could determine whether or not it's worthwhile to make a pro-grade EVF mirrorless full-frame body (and that would pretty much be an industry first).


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01-24-2012, 03:31 PM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
No, I need mirrorless, with EVF being FF.
M9 is a FF mirrorless. Go and bug Leica to make an EVF version...
01-24-2012, 04:41 PM - 1 Like   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Pentax could be testing the waters with the new K-01, and could be keeping the prospect of a full-frame under consideration. Based on how the mirrorless aps-c k-mount camera does, they could determine whether or not it's worthwhile to make a pro-grade EVF mirrorless full-frame body (and that would pretty much be an industry first).
Mirorless APS-C will sell if it is done with K-mount, but it will not be a race to the "small" form factor. Frankly, in the history of cameras, smaller form factors have not always translated into bigger sales. Canon, Nikon, and Minolta were always tops in sales with the smaller body suppliers of Pentax and especially Olympus in #4 and #5 spots. Tellingly the best-selling Pentax model was the quite large K1000.

So if they can wrestle a K-mount onto a mirrorless as an APS-C alternative and stop trying to make something like Sony NEX's can o' beer and pack o' cigarettes, then there may be something there.

FF is all about market share, sensor prices, and ultimately the shelf price. But I doubt we'd see a mirrorless verso right away for that reason, and also, FF demands a quality OVF, especially with the Limiteds as the marquee profit-making lenses Pentax offers.
01-24-2012, 07:01 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
Please don't state that as fact.



Your guess is as good as anyone else's. But it's not a fact.
Eh, did I say somewhere that it is a fact? If I did, sorry, chief. Even if I mistakenly said that is is fact, is that going to like kill or harm somebody?


Last edited by Fontan; 01-24-2012 at 07:09 PM.
01-24-2012, 07:07 PM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
2 things:

1. Generally speaking, to which group is any FF camera targeted to? Right: Pro's, semi pro's and very advanced amateurs. That group is definetely NOT interested in a mirrorless camera.

2. An mirrorless camera with a EVF has only 1 advantage: A larger brighter viewfinder... But a FF DSLR automatically already has a larger brigher viewfinder. So there is no reason whatsoever to sacrifice the OVF.

If Pentax brings out a FF mirroless, no pro is going to touch it. And all the rest is going to bitch about the fact that it's to big, and that there are smaller MILCs.
Eh, what is a semi-pro? Just curious. I am not sure if you are a professional why you want to shoot Pentax aps-c or FF or even MF, DSLR or not. The service is not there. Look at how they dealt with K5 crap. I am not sure if Pentax target pros at all. If you are a true professional, I really don't think it matters what you shoot with. All it matters is reliability and dependable service. No?
01-24-2012, 09:31 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
Eh, what is a semi-pro? Just curious. I am not sure if you are a professional why you want to shoot Pentax aps-c or FF or even MF, DSLR or not. The service is not there. Look at how they dealt with K5 crap. I am not sure if Pentax target pros at all. If you are a true professional, I really don't think it matters what you shoot with. All it matters is reliability and dependable service. No?
Isn't that why Pentax have now introduced that 'Pro' service into the USA ?
01-24-2012, 10:16 PM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frogfish Quote
Isn't that why Pentax have now introduced that 'Pro' service into the USA ?
Well, thankfully my 645d has not experienced problems so that I haven't have to utilize their "pro" service. My buddy shoots with hasselblad and he tells me their service is nothing like what Pentax offer (dont know how true that is). Pentax themselves said that they had advanced amateurs (which I am not) in mind when developing 645d. At any rate, I don't see them extending their "pro" service to FF camera. But I hear this pro service consists of repair work being out sourced to a third party company. I find that a bit funny.

I am not saying that if you are a pro you should not shoot Pentax. But, if my livelihood depended on photography(thank Budduh it isn't), I am not sure if I am brave enough to go with Pentax. A scary thought, really.
01-25-2012, 01:29 AM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
Eh, what is a semi-pro? Just curious. I am not sure if you are a professional why you want to shoot Pentax aps-c or FF or even MF, DSLR or not. The service is not there. Look at how they dealt with K5 crap. I am not sure if Pentax target pros at all. If you are a true professional, I really don't think it matters what you shoot with. All it matters is reliability and dependable service. No?
No, now Pentax wouldn't be the pro brand. But they made public that they are going in that direction.

Pentax officially stated on 20-10-2011:
"Such extension goes for sure in the direction of high quality products intended for advanced amateur and professional photographers together with products for the general public."

01-25-2012, 05:00 AM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
Eh, did I say somewhere that it is a fact?
You said "There won't be a DSLR with FF sensor in the near future."

I think you can google to understand that this is stated as a fact. While I assume that it is your speculation or opinion only.

Listening to what people (Asahiflex) tell you is the least of things you could consider.
01-25-2012, 07:02 AM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
You said "There won't be a DSLR with FF sensor in the near future."

I think you can google to understand that this is stated as a fact. While I assume that it is your speculation or opinion only.

Listening to what people (Asahiflex) tell you is the least of things you could consider.

Here is what you said earlier.

"APSC will survive, but based on their strentgths, not weakness, i.e., compactness, mass producability, video capability (ead EVF). All of that means mirrorless."

Is this fact, or speculation?

You do the same, far more than I ever do.
01-25-2012, 07:35 AM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
Here is what you said earlier.

"APSC will survive, but based on their strentgths, not weakness, i.e., compactness, mass producability, video capability (ead EVF). All of that means mirrorless."

Is this fact, or speculation?

You do the same, far more than I ever do.
IMHO, after several years of reading his reasoned and measured posts, falconeye has the professional skill and expertise to speculate reasonably; identifies his speculative comments as such; clearly articulates that which he knows to be fact, including publishing extensive technical articles to support his opinions; and may, in fact, (as I suspect others here are) be subject to a NDA with Pentax.

In your court.
01-25-2012, 07:55 AM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
You do the same, far more than I ever do.
Thanks for the hint.

The point is I try to avoid it and if I'm criticised for not making clear what is fact or opinion, then I appreciate the critics. I invite you to do the same.

You may also note that I didn't react on your original comment, but on the way you dealt with critics from Asahiflex who (like monochrome) is a respected member and deserves a consideration of what he said.

(Side Note. The comment you quoted was a statement nobody can know if it is true or not. But if Pentax will release FF in 2012 or not is something some do actually know. Not you, obviously.)

Last edited by falconeye; 01-25-2012 at 08:02 AM.
01-25-2012, 08:16 AM   #133
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All these threads full of feverish speculation are tearing Pentaxians apart.

Pentax needs to come up with some concrete details soon, or there will be blood on the forums.
01-25-2012, 08:47 AM   #134
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BY industry consensus APS-C has become a commodity product.

Due to the desire for fat margins, Canon, Nikon, Leica, and Sony see the need to restrict FF sensor supply and position these cameras at price points substantially higher than APS-C.

From my research there is no CMOS FF sensor available that allows for Pentax to upset that dynamic. CCD is not really DSLR competitive. Samsung is not there. Sony in the red continuously says they will be reluctant to cut the price of their FF cash cow sensor. We'll have to see.
01-25-2012, 09:02 AM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
BY industry consensus APS-C has become a commodity product.

Due to the desire for fat margins, Canon, Nikon, Leica, and Sony see the need to restrict FF sensor supply and position these cameras at price points substantially higher than APS-C.

From my research there is no CMOS FF sensor available that allows for Pentax to upset that dynamic. CCD is not really DSLR competitive. Samsung is not there. Sony in the red continuously says they will be reluctant to cut the price of their FF cash cow sensor. We'll have to see.
Why is CCD not DSLR competitive? Who cares about liveview and movie? CCD does mean better IQ then CMOS, isn't that what FF customers are after anyway? It means a FF camera with better IQ then the other big brands. I think it's very competitive.
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