[Anvh]

I agree that many seem to have a fear that they won't continue to get nice APS-C bodies if Pentax introduces FF bodies, and I agree that such concern seems nonsensical. Amazing how the same fear didn't grip Pentax APS-C shooters when the 645D was rumored.

I'm more concerned about the APS-C lenses...
Anyway if Pentax would shift to mostly FF that means i'm gone since i've mostly APS-C glass i can move to any brand then, not that the grass is greener though.

[mrtickles]

I honestly don't think Pentax are going to go FF. They're smarter than they appear! It's probably been said many times over but they just wouldn't be able to convert Canon/ Nikon users over. People are almost fanatical (to the truest sense of the word) about their camera gear. I have less concern over the small differences between APS-C and 35mm as much as I do between APS-C and MF.

I think it will be a technological advancement/ evolution in mirror-less technology like we are seeing. More accurate translations of the visible spectrum on to smaller chips more pixel packed chips, perhaps even different ways of seeing light ie infrared capable cameras.

Pentax may be bold but it may well be in what is the next generation of camera technology - in 10 years time who is going to be thinking about a 35mm sensor? We may well be on Large Format compact by then!

Good glass + good handling = Good pictures

[24X36NOW]

It's probably been said many times over but they just wouldn't be able to convert Canon/ Nikon users over.

If they can't convert Nikon/Canon users, where exactly is their "growth" in market share (that Ricoh talks about) supposed to be coming from?! They certainly won't "convert" APS-C Nikon/Canon users any more readily, and they are losing their own customer base by not having a FF more than anything else. Sony might provide potential due to their idiotic "SLT only" strategy, but that will just feed Nikon and Canon unless Pentax does something (i.e., expand their lineup to include FF) to give "switchers" a reason to believe Pentax will be a good system to buy into.

[Alizarine]

Back in the ol' days, it seems Pentax was the brand for the masses, with the K1000. Pentax snagged the giant user-base for users who wanted to learn and do photography with an SLR that wouldn't punch a hole in their student-size budgets. However in the age of autofocus and the digital age, Pentax lost it... why? What happened to the Spottie legacy and MX years?

[HSV]

I believe it's because Pentax has been (consistently) late to get into the market for quite a few things (DSLR, FF, bridge, EVIL, etc).

Also, Pentax doesn't seem to offer much in terms of trendy features that really don't matter (touchscreen, movable screen, etc.)...unfortunately, consumers like these seemingly useless features.

[Chex]

If Pentax came out with a nice 24-36MP FF camera in a nice rugged sealed body I would still be tempted to sell my amazing D800 and jump back into a Pentax setup as I'm not overly vested in Nikon Glass.. but I don't see an announcement in the near future, and by X-mas time I intend to be well vested in some glass..

[Alizarine]

I guess that's the point for some - if not most - timing. The LX came late; the SF1 came late. The MZ-S came late, and the *ist-D wasn't exactly what most Pentaxians were expecting to come in the digital age.

Over the past 30 years, what has kept Pentax from gaining ground against Canon and Nikon? Is it their "trying to be different" approach? Miniaturization? Design? Marketing?

[Medium FormatPro]

Over the past 30 years, what has kept Pentax from gaining ground against Canon and Nikon?

There isn't much of a comparison between the film ages and the digital ones.

Pentax could only dream of going back to their glory days of film; when camera companies like Olympus, Konica and others actually lost customers to Pentax. Even Canon users that did not use items like the A1 (or for Nikon items like the F3) - they were also jumping ship for Pentax.

But now Pentax has their version of a glass ceiling. When the K-5 was still "in production" that was their flagship - then there was nothing up until someone would consider medium format. Might I also add; that any medium format camera isn't really considered as a practical field camera due to; size, weight, and lack of lens selection.

So what Pentax really needs now is: more cameras bodies to market to different segments, also at least one new K-5 replacement (which will most likely be better), and also to eventually address full frame that will accept the same lens' at their other camera bodies.

[Pepe Guitarra]

There isn't much of a comparison between the film ages and the digital ones.

So what Pentax really needs now is: more cameras bodies to market to different segments, also at least one new K-5 replacement (which will most likely be better), and also to eventually address full frame that will accept the same lens' at their other camera bodies.

They also need to improve the quality control. I really like the K5, it is way better than the Canon 5D Mark II, and it is right there with the 5D Mark III. The main difference is in the quality. Pentax has to make sure the lens unlock button does not come off, etc.

[Medium FormatPro]

I like the K-5 as well. I seem to have (as many others) received a perfect (new) camera. I've heard of very remote cases where there may be a rather small issue with "sensor burn". Not just sure how remote - based on percentages, but... I have no probem in fully endorsing the K-5 - either as a brand new camera purchase (if there are any new ones left anywhere) or as one that has been previously used. I also have yet to experience the lens botton issue - or perhaps they (Pentax)
corrected it at some point.

...And then there is another one of my camera bodies; the K-01. Sure I'm aware of the cover on the user right of the camera. That and, perhaps some people don't like the way the camera looks - or even works without having the slr or evf view. But I've given it a fairly good run - a good professional run and testing. For the price - it's an incredibly durable camera and far above average build quality. Then there's the image - the results clearly make the camera - that and also the ability to use that many lens' without adapters.

But it could also be far worse than present Pentax digital. I'll go back to the K-5 for the example. Compare most any K-5 to literally any Sony digital and then look at build quality. The K-5 wins against any Sony out there.

And also; to anyone also familiar with the history of film cameras; both from Pentax and Ricoh. It would be truly great to have any Pentax digital camera of the quality of the LX - or even the frame of some of the Ricoh XR's - and then made better with K30 wr.

One can only dream.

[eddie1960]

Proponents say it's big and getting bigger. Detractors say it's tiny.

up until this point it's been about 10% of the SLR market (or a little less some claim 5%) still a big number when you look at the worldwide slr market volume. and $ wise it will be a bigger percentage due to the bigger price of course
With some of the rumoured items like the D600 pending it is poised to become a much larger percentage of the market. that should be the number one concern over at Pentax (not whether a bunch of us on the forum are whining endlessly for eons about it)
I'm on the fence about an announcement at photokina with some of the recent rumours (K300,K5N,K3 - which gives us 4 bodies) but still think an announcement withing the next 8 months is likely. Ricoh would be behind the gun on development since in all likelihood any development in the skunkworks was killed by Hoya and most of what we have seen would still be influenced by Hoya's development. any thing not that arrives will be a volume focused item, something FF definitely is not)
I think ultimately one will arrive, whether it's date of arrival satisfies those here who want one is another issue. For Ricoh to fully roll over Pentax to their plan is likely a 2 year effort

[ElJamoquio]

For Ricoh to fully roll over Pentax to their plan is likely a 2 year effort

I agree. I was on board with the March rumor as being sufficient but optimistic timing. I hope for a 2012 announcement but I'm not expecting one.

[tabl10s]

I believe it's because Pentax has been (consistently) late to get into the market for quite a few things (DSLR, FF, bridge, EVIL, etc).

Also, Pentax doesn't seem to offer much in terms of trendy features that really don't matter (touchscreen, movable screen, etc.)...unfortunately, consumers like these seemingly useless features.

At one point:

Automatic film advance/built-in motors

Interchangeable screens/finders

AF(one pro said his two-finger technique was better/faster)

Built-in meters

were considered useless fads.

[Frogfish]

If they can't convert Nikon/Canon users, where exactly is their "growth" in market share (that Ricoh talks about) supposed to be coming from?! They certainly won't "convert" APS-C Nikon/Canon users any more readily, and they are losing their own customer base by not having a FF more than anything else. Sony might provide potential due to their idiotic "SLT only" strategy, but that will just feed Nikon and Canon unless Pentax does something (i.e., expand their lineup to include FF) to give "switchers" a reason to believe Pentax will be a good system to buy into.

You're looking at it from the wrong perspective. It's not about switchers, it's about growth. I've just posted a response to virtually the same question on another forum :

I believe that a global perspective is needed in order to understand the strategy of camera manufacturers.

The USA and Europe are still large markets and will remain so but the amazing growth in huge countries such as China, India and Brazil has lead to an abundance of exceedingly affluent people with a huge, and rapidly growing, middle class. Usually these people will buy well known or 'designer' brands and often (females) anything with a high 'cuteness and usability' factor.

These will be major markets (for camera manufacturers), with large disposable incomes, that will exceed that of the USA within 5-10 years (in many other markets - cars for example - China already has). It is my belief that these are the markets that are going to dictate the future of camera design, not that the USA/Europe markets will be ignored, but they are mature markets with relatively conservative buyers who generally know what they want.

[lol101]

Time to close this topic definitively?