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02-23-2012, 11:01 AM   #196
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QuoteOriginally posted by angus Quote
Ok, falconeye, I offer you a bet: If there are more FF DSLRs at photokina 2018 than APS-C or smaller format DSLRs (nothing about mirrorless) we'll meet at photokina and I will take you for dinner to Frueh! Including the necessary number of beers - if I win - you probably know the place....
People knowing me give up if I accept a bet. Because then I am 100% sure and I never lost a bet.

In this case, I am only 80% sure and so I am sorry but cannot accept your bet. My bet reputation is at stake

Nevertheless, I will be glad to invite you for diner at PK18 in Cologne if I go there anyway. CU there

02-23-2012, 11:09 AM   #197
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
The lens arguement is kind of moot people. do you really think Pentax would introduce a Ff without an auto crop mode like the nikon DX mode. when used on the 36mp D800 this essentially is like using a D7000 (or K5 in Pentax case) hardly a hradship and for people moving up from apsc it means they can use all their lenses while they grow their collection of FF
It's not like Pentax will write a subroutine that shuts down the camera when a DA lens is attached

unlike film days where going FF meant going medium format and requiring a whole new set of lenses this is a relatively painless move IMO, and for Pentax a good one as it will also build lens sales as well

If you don't want the FF you need not buy it of course
And IIRC Pentax Has developed the most extensive line of HG APSc lenses so there shouldn't be prohibitive performance fall-off using auto-crop, either.
02-23-2012, 11:19 AM   #198
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Personally I'd probably hate it if it was auto-crop. I'd hope to be able to turn that off.

I'd really prefer to choose for myself what is 'acceptable' and do the cropping myself.
02-23-2012, 11:26 AM   #199
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Personally I'd probably hate it if it was auto-crop. I'd hope to be able to turn that off.

I'd really prefer to choose for myself what is 'acceptable' and do the cropping myself.
lol, it's not as if it's released alredy. :-)

Taking this too seriously?

02-23-2012, 11:51 AM   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by fikkser Quote
lol, it's not as if it's released alredy. :-)

Taking this too seriously?

Just expressing my opinion to the people who don't read this. Obviously I'm not annoyed yet. Besides, auto-crop is NOT unique.
02-23-2012, 12:09 PM   #201
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Just expressing my opinion to the people who don't read this. Obviously I'm not annoyed yet. Besides, auto-crop is NOT unique.
IIRC the Nikon crop mode works differently on the D700/D3
D700 it auto masks, you can override and shoot FF or override and shoot crop on an FX lens, the D3 added a 5:4 format mode (which is a killer idea perfect 8x10/16x20/24x30 print size WYSIWYG when composing

haven't looked at how the D4/D800 are implementing it but I would assume similar modes

no reason to get unique here I think
02-23-2012, 12:17 PM   #202
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The newest full frame sensors have pixel densities close to APS-C (at least the D800), meaning that there is no particular advantage with APS-C, except for cost. Sure corners/borders will be weaker with full frame, but there is always cropping and truthfully, for many photos corner sharpness isn't crucial. The big thing that full frame has on APS-C is fast, wide glass (no equivalents available for APS-C). Size is something I am not sure about. Could you truly fit a full frame sensor in a K5 body with adaquate specs or, is the D800 the lower end of the size spectrum?

However cost is still pretty huge. I have a hard time believing that a three thousand dollar camera is going to sell for anything close to the volumes of a thousand dollar camera (upper end APS-C). Even if the D700 stays on line for awhile at two thousand dollars a pop, it is still pretty pricey and has much less cropping ability as compared to the newer full frame cameras.

Unless someone releases a full-speced, full frame camera for a lot cheaper than current prices, I see upper end APS-C sticking around for quite awhile.
For many lenses corner sharpness is not important. This is true, but it also impacts AF performance for AF points that are spread out on a FF camera. The lenses that are likely to be least effected are lenses like the 100mm F/2.8 or the FA* 85mm where it is not really important anyway. Lenses most likely to be effected will be wide angle lenses which happen to be focal lengths that landscape photographers use and where edge sharpness is important.

Which focal lengths need good edge sharpness?
Which focal lengths will be most effected.

My biggest issue is CA.
02-23-2012, 02:40 PM   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I maintain the test shot thread. The result for the DA55-300 is from viking79. It receives +/++ depending on the focal length, out of +++ which would be the rating of a true FF lens. So, it was certainly reported as usable.
Hmm, that's pretty encouraging. It means that it may need much less than 1.5x cropping. It's important to keep in mind that the amount of cropping needed also highly depends on the subject. If the only thing in focus is in the center of the frame anyway, the tolerance for low resolution, vignetting etc. in the corners is much higher than e.g. for an architecture or landscape shot where it's essential the the whole frame is sharp and without vignetting.

02-23-2012, 03:48 PM   #204
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I've done a bit of looking around at Nikon prices here and found the D800 to be around AU$3800 and the D4 to be AU$7900. The Australian dollar is US$1.073 right now too so those prices are a let down indeed. There's 10% goods and services tax in there and probably 4% duty as well. Still, it's hard not to think we always get screwed here.

Last edited by bossa; 02-23-2012 at 04:00 PM.
02-23-2012, 04:07 PM   #205
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The US gets things pretty cheap for sure! Even Japan's MSRP for the D800 is 268200 yen ($3350) while in the US it is $3000. (unless it's sold locally, then the price becomes more comperable ~$3300)

Not taxing online purchases is what we do best!
02-23-2012, 04:09 PM   #206
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QuoteOriginally posted by RXrenesis8 Quote
The US gets things pretty cheap for sure! Even Japan's MSRP for the D800 is 268200 yen ($3350) while in the US it is $3000. (unless it's sold locally, then the price becomes more comperable ~$3300)

Not taxing online purchases is what we do best!
UK and German prices are the same as the $3k US price, when including tax and duties. Note that pros wouldn't pay VAT on a D800.
02-23-2012, 11:32 PM   #207
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I tried a D700 today with a 24-70.. just to whet my appetite. I was very impressed with everything frankly. The camera is quite a nice size sans grip and If I ended up jumping ship I'd forgo the grip I feel. The first thing I noticed was the LED's in the VF changing brightness according to the strength of light coming into the camera.

I'll wait a few months but I feel I'll be selling at least one of my K-5 and a few lenses.. and maybe one Gibson ES335 Custom shop and a few other guitars to pay for it.

Last edited by bossa; 02-24-2012 at 01:48 AM.
02-24-2012, 01:56 AM   #208
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
and maybe one Gibson ES335 Custom shop and a few other guitars to pay for it.
No no no.... dont sell the Gib...

That will hount you for the rest of your life, trust me! It will! Do not sell the guitar!

Sell everything exept the FA31 and FA77 and one K-5, and try Nikon.

Edit: Keep the FA*300 to....
02-24-2012, 02:00 AM   #209
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QuoteOriginally posted by the swede Quote
No no no.... dont sell the Gib...

That will hount you for the rest of your life, trust me! It will! Do not sell the guitar!

Sell everything exept the FA31 and FA77 and one K-5, and try Nikon.

Edit: Keep the FA*300 to....
hehe.. thanks.. I hear you. I've made that mistake b4... I have as much junk to sell anyway I think..

PS: I was thinking of buying a D800, not a D700. I'd never sell a cherry red, dot inlay Custom Shop ES335 (figured top) for a mere D700 ;-)

Last edited by bossa; 02-24-2012 at 01:18 PM.
02-24-2012, 02:48 AM   #210
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I guess no FF as Pentax are not able to work out how to make one (amazing really) D800 will have a big impact for FF users and it will pull some high end Pentax shooters away. K-5 is nice but it's not enough. Pentax just don't have the vision or guts to try it, shame really
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