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03-09-2012, 03:18 AM   #331
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
They have been merged. Who controls who remains to be seen ...
That's not wat I'm reading here: Ricoh reshuffle sees Pentax take control of cameras: Digital Photography Review

03-09-2012, 03:45 AM   #332
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
They have been merged. Who controls who remains to be seen ...
Ricoh could have let Personal Multimedia Product Company (PMMC - the Ricoh division that develops Rocoh cameras) and Pentax Ricoh Imaging Company (PRI - the Ricoh division that develops Pentax cameras) operate independently, or they could have announced that PMMC would take over development of Pentax cameras. But instead they announced that PRI would take over responsibility and development resources of Ricoh branded cameras. Those options seem significantly different to me, with respect to who controls who.
03-09-2012, 04:36 AM   #333
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
That's not wat I'm reading here
I do
QuoteOriginally posted by cfraz Quote
Pentax Ricoh Imaging Company (PRI - the Ricoh division that develops Pentax cameras)
That's the trap you're falling into.

PRI is the business unit which develops all Ricoh cameras now (effective April 2012). It is not Pentax. With no further information, there is no hint whatsoever who controls who. I.e., we don't know how staff and executive power was shuffled around.

Now, if somebody can tell me who will be in lead of PRI after April 2012, then this would be a different story ... But until then, I say that we don't know who controls who. It is certainly nothing which can be read from the press release.
03-09-2012, 05:04 AM   #334
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I do

That's the trap you're falling into.

PRI is the business unit which develops all Ricoh cameras now (effective April 2012). It is not Pentax. With no further information, there is no hint whatsoever who controls who. I.e., we don't know how staff and executive power was shuffled around.
A strong hint is that the current PRI's president is specifically mentioned: Zenji Miura, who is working for Ricoh since 1976. Which is not a surprise because PRI is owned by Ricoh. And I guess we'll never know how staff and executives will be shifted around.

QuoteQuote:
Now, if somebody can tell me who will be in lead of PRI after April 2012, then this would be a different story ... But until then, I say that we don't know who controls who. It is certainly nothing which can be read from the press release.
I'd guess that Zenji Miura will continue to be PRI's president. However I'm also pretty sure that Pentax's R&D department will have more weight over Ricoh's R&D and not vice versa. But you're right that it remains to be seen how this will work out...

03-09-2012, 05:24 AM   #335
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QuoteOriginally posted by twitch Quote
This is not my photo, but that of a Pentax forums member who is now using a 5DII. I hope he won't mind me posting this, but it seems at least one reason he's made the move is so he can use fast wide lenses, here's one of his shots from his stream that is impossible to replicate on APS-C, it's taken with a 35/1.4 wide open.
Of course I don´t mind mate . Yes I got seduced by the dark side and the shallow DOF of FF. The 35 on FF is really nice actually. At first I thought it was to wide but you get used to it quiet quickly . Although I am still following the threads here hoping to see info about a Pentax FF. Would love to shoot the FA-lenses on such a camera

QuoteOriginally posted by fikkser Quote
:-)
I bought a 5d for that effect. The problem is that I use manual glass and manual focusing with fast wide angle primes is near impossible, that picture would be quite hard to shoot because how small the girl is, it's almost impossible to see where the focus is in the viewfinder. It's far easier to focus with a 55 1,2 on aps-c IMO. I even get problems with my 21mm f3,8 on ff. People want FF for manual primes, but it isn't all good.
I feel that I had more problems focusing my Cosina 55mm f1.2 lens on my K-5 then on 5Dc. On my K-5 I mostly used LV to focus, worked really nice I thought, I had problems with the VF on my K-5. On 5Dc it was tricky using the VF at first but after some practice I got better. Here are some shots with Canon 5Dc and Cosina 55mm f1.2
Flickriver: Searching for photos matching 'Canon 5D cosina 55mm f1.2'
03-09-2012, 05:37 AM   #336
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QuoteOriginally posted by Downfall Quote
Here are some shots with Canon 5Dc and Cosina 55mm f1.2
Flickriver: Searching for photos matching 'Canon 5D cosina 55mm f1.2'
Love those shots mate! Especially the forest shots.

and... nice to see you here to still some "Pentax pixie dust" left in you heart is it?
What ever you do, dont ever sell your FA77
03-09-2012, 06:05 AM   #337
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
A strong hint is that the current PRI's president is specifically mentioned: Zenji Miura, who is working for Ricoh since 1976. Which is not a surprise because PRI is owned by Ricoh. And I guess we'll never know how staff and executives will be shifted around.
Ricoh bought Pentax; it should be obvious they want to have a certain degree of control. Thus, naming Miura-san president was only natural.

OTOH, Pentax (as in: PRI) now controls the ex-Ricoh camera division, and that's a fact. It should be obvious this cannot possibly means the ex-Ricoh camera division is in control.
Who leads them is almost irrelevant; it's not like Miura-san will force them give up on the K-mount and make GXR modules.

Yes, PRI means Pentax Ricoh Imaging - or, as they say, "Pentax - a Ricoh Company". It's misleading to name them "the business unit which develops all Ricoh cameras", since their primary function is to develop Pentax cameras.
03-09-2012, 07:56 AM   #338
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QuoteQuote:
This is not my photo, but that of a Pentax forums member who is now using a 5DII. I hope he won't mind me posting this, but it seems at least one reason he's made the move is so he can use fast wide lenses, here's one of his shots from his stream that is impossible to replicate on APS-C, it's taken with a 35/1.4 wide open.
And you know this is impossible to replicate on an APS-c because? Really, how do you evaluate without a comparison shot? I'm not arguing you could get the exact shot, but I would argue, move in use a wider lens and extend you DoF because you are closer to the subject...and you get a shot with the same elements. I'd like to make up my own mind on which shot I like better, not have someone else tell me what is possible and not possible.

03-09-2012, 08:22 AM   #339
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
A strong hint is that the current PRI's president is specifically mentioned: Zenji Miura, who is working for Ricoh since 1976. Which is not a surprise because PRI is owned by Ricoh. And I guess we'll never know how staff and executives will be shifted around.

I'd guess that Zenji Miura will continue to be PRI's president. However I'm also pretty sure that Pentax's R&D department will have more weight over Ricoh's R&D and not vice versa. But you're right that it remains to be seen how this will work out...
My global financial services company was acquired by a smaller company in June, 2009. The very most senior layer of executives all hail from the acquirer. Below that level 62% of executives and process personell hail from the acquired company (my company). We were taken over because the processes, products and human capital were compellingly strong, but the parent company had financially failed. The purchase price was well below book value and a ridiculously low mul;tiple on cash flow and earnings. Of course, the acquiring company has invested several billion dollars developing the two companies into one new entity so perhaps the acquisition price wasn't really so low after all, We are quite literally just now merging our systems, products and processes into one,seamless entity.

Zenji Miura will likely have responsibility for developing the long-range growth direction, targets and plan for the division. A good Chief Executive evaluates all the available people inside and outside the new company who can best make the plan real. We won't know the vision, plan nor people for a couple years.
03-09-2012, 08:57 AM   #340
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
If the FPS of your 5D is high enough, you can apply the same cheat/trick as I do with my 55 1.2 on my K5. High shutter speed, continueous drive. Use the VF for composing only. And then shamelessly machinegun whilst focussing. Then there's always a few hits in there somewhere. I know, it's (very) far from an elegant solution. It's brute force, but it works very well.
Does canon have a CIF?
03-09-2012, 09:21 AM   #341
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QuoteOriginally posted by twitch Quote
This is not my photo, but that of a Pentax forums member who is now using a 5DII. I hope he won't mind me posting this, but it seems at least one reason he's made the move is so he can use fast wide lenses, here's one of his shots from his stream that is impossible to replicate on APS-C, it's taken with a 35/1.4 wide open.


Thanks of the photos and explanations. I did learn something but I don't see how the photo of the young lady cannot be duplicated by an APS-C camera but it could be my untrained eye. I understand why some of you have different motivations for acquiring a FF camera. I can sympathize with some of them.

I specialize in wildlife so much of your photos are different from mine. In my opinion, the camera is the least important aspect when it comes to wildlife photography. (I am not speaking to anyone in particular.) If there is anyone of you who thinks a FF camera will totally transform your photography, I wouldn't buy that for a second. The most important factor in photography is you and the lighting and then the lens and these are more important than a good camera.

There is of course post processing that can enhance a photograph and I imagine can make a photo look more like it came from a FF camera.

There is one point I can make to vouch for a FF camera. The 645D is a camera I would like to borrow mainly because I do demand more megapixels because some subjects are very difficult to approach. As camera technology becomes better, the 645D will lose its appeal. There will be a point where almost everyone will say, ("Enough megapixels", "the dynamic range is good enough") and new cameras will be able to take better photos in lower light.

The K-5 is definitely noticably better than the K-7 in image quality. However, it has always been about what I call "optimal lighting conditions" I wouldn't call it "good lighting conditions". The trick is finding them and the better the camera, the more suited it is to deal with the light and the subject.

The FF will keep its appeal in a market where APS-C technology is advancing.
03-09-2012, 11:16 AM   #342
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QuoteOriginally posted by Downfall Quote
I feel that I had more problems focusing my Cosina 55mm f1.2 lens on my K-5 then on 5Dc. On my K-5 I mostly used LV to focus, worked really nice I thought, I had problems with the VF on my K-5. On 5Dc it was tricky using the VF at first but after some practice I got better. Here are some shots with Canon 5Dc and Cosina 55mm f1.2
Flickriver: Searching for photos matching 'Canon 5D cosina 55mm f1.2'
Great shots! I must get out in the forest with the 1,2 this summer, very inspiring.

I did not see you were Swedish (wasnt logged in), but when I looked at your pictures I knew just from watching the 5 first that it must be in Sweden, kind of strange. I actually thought so before seeing the 5th picture which looks like any Swedish town with the church in the bg. Must be the Swedish pixie dust.
03-09-2012, 11:22 AM   #343
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Does canon have a CIF?
Don't know, probably not on the 5d atleast. I haven't even got focus confirmation with my m42 adapter.

The CIF suck b**** IMO. It's very inacurate, I think the focus confirmation suck too. Haven't worked good enough with k10 k20 or k7, with my k5 I haven't even bothered to try. :-)
03-09-2012, 04:42 PM   #344
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QuoteOriginally posted by traderdrew Quote
Thanks of the photos and explanations. I did learn something but I don't see how the photo of the young lady cannot be duplicated by an APS-C camera but it could be my untrained eye.
It's math:

Online Depth of Field Calculator

FF sensor using a 55/1.2 w/subject at 2 meters renders :

Depth of field
Near limit 1.96 m
Far limit 2.05 m
Total 0.09 m

An APS-C sensor using the same lens, same distance to subject:

Depth of field
Near limit 1.97 m
Far limit 2.03 m
Total 0.06 m

For a grand total DOF difference of .03 meters.

3cm

Good luck measuring that on a 2D image. I doubt any trained eye can make that adjudication. Those who claim to see the difference are in la-la land. Pros I know who use FF do not do so for DOF effects, but for higher resolution and better low-light performance.
03-09-2012, 04:52 PM - 1 Like   #345
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
It's math:

Online Depth of Field Calculator

FF sensor using a 55/1.2 w/subject at 2 meters renders :

Depth of field
Near limit 1.96 m
Far limit 2.05 m
Total 0.09 m

An APS-C sensor using the same lens, same distance to subject:

Depth of field
Near limit 1.97 m
Far limit 2.03 m
Total 0.06 m

For a grand total DOF difference of .03 meters.

3cm

Good luck measuring that on a 2D image. I doubt any trained eye can make that adjudication. Those who claim to see the difference are in la-la land. Pros I know who use FF do not do so for DOF effects, but for higher resolution and better low-light performance.
Of course I'll be able to tell the difference between those two pictures - one will be cropped to half the area of the other.
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