[bossa]

A long time ago . . .

In a galaxy far, far away . . .

DSLR
WARS

Episode XXVI
THE PERPETUAL HOPE

More like:

In your dreams, far, far away from consciousness


SENSOR
WARS
(a mirror flop away from reality)


Episode I

The Perpetual Sleep (I'll wake you when it happens)

[einstrigger]

Well I guess many of us will switch to the d800. Now I have to learn a whole new lens system... Are there nikkors as sweet as the 31 and the 77? FML..

Not as sweet, since there is nothing similar from Nikon in terms of focal length, size, or build when compared to the Pentax limiteds. Of course, Nikon has other offerings that are more traditional and just as sweet, like their 35mm 1.4g or 85mm 1.4g, but if you thought the Limiteds were expensive, you'll be in for more sticker shock with Nikon.

[ElJamoquio]

Whats ironic about all this is that "Full Frame" at one time was considered an amateurish format when medium and large format dominated.

Now people hold FF up to some sort of near mythical status.

Hell, I'd still rather have a medium format or large format camera... but even if I could afford those in digital format, or cared enough to do my own film-developing... the cameras are too cumbersome to carry along with me and use for my style of photography.

Boring history... Large format people thought medium format was/is amateurish; then eventually medium format thought 35mm was amateurish; then eventually 35mm people thought APS-C is amateurish. Lens technology and 'sensor' (film) technology improved so that less cumbersome systems eventually gave 'professional' results.

The k-5 is an awesome camera. But lens technology hasn't advanced as quickly as it has in the past to allow smaller 'sensors' (film). Until there are semi-common, 15mm f2 lenses (canon's 24mm is f/1.4!!), 31mm f1.2 lenses, 55mm f1.0 etc., you will never have the range of options on APS-C that you do on full frame, even if sensor technology eliminates the problems with high ISO... which of course it hasn't, either.

[Ash]

OP, I think you should change the title of this thread so that it reflects more of the truth about the FF. i.e. we don't know when it will come, rather than FF dream crushed today.

The link you posted does not quash any hopes of whether a Pentax FF dSLR will be developed.

I've said it in one of the other many FF threads here, Pentax have always had it in their business philosophy to produce products that are practical, small, lightweight, of exemplary build quality and different to the competition. They take longer to produce their cameras and lenses, and in so doing can frustrate some impatient clients who have a high level of expectation from a company taking its time to both analyse the market and innovate in their photographic technology.

It's pretty clear that if people are after a FF sooner rather than later, they should be going straight to Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc. Don't bother buying into the Pentax system and complain that the FF body is not here yet. Enjoy the system as it is or get what you need elsewhere. Certainly, express your interests and petition the company for ideas on new developments, but there is never any guarantee our wishes will be heard, nor can we expect the new developments to arrive in the timeframe we please.

[Basset]

Not as sweet, since there is nothing similar from Nikon in terms of focal length, size, or build when compared to the Pentax limiteds. Of course, Nikon has other offerings that are more traditional and just as sweet, like their 35mm 1.4g or 85mm 1.4g, but if you thought the Limiteds were expensive, you'll be in for more sticker shock with Nikon.

About $3k to get both lenses.

[Basset]

Hell, I'd still rather have a medium format or large format camera... but even if I could afford those in digital format, or cared enough to do my own film-developing... the cameras are too cumbersome to carry along with me and use for my style of photography.

Boring history... Large format people thought medium format was/is amateurish; then eventually medium format thought 35mm was amateurish; then eventually 35mm people thought APS-C is amateurish. Lens technology and 'sensor' (film) technology improved so that less cumbersome systems eventually gave 'professional' results.

The k-5 is an awesome camera. But lens technology hasn't advanced as quickly as it has in the past to allow smaller 'sensors' (film). Until there are semi-common, 15mm f2 lenses (canon's 24mm is f/1.4!!), 31mm f1.2 lenses, 55mm f1.0 etc., you will never have the range of options on APS-C that you do on full frame, even if sensor technology eliminates the problems with high ISO... which of course it hasn't, either.

And many APS-C people think micro 4/3 is amateurish. Though Olympus's 45 mm f1.8 has gotten some attention.

[fast50]

Pentax Full Frame Dream Crushed Today

Dreams are often characterised by extremely improbably scenarios. Deal with it, move on, buy a wider lens and take pictures. Or sell your kit and buy a D4.

[monochrome]

More like:

The Perpetual Sleep (I'll wake you when it happens)

Ahhhh . . . . the cynics translation.

I think we'll have a really interesting, well-made, distinctive larger-sensor camera at whatever point there are enough credible FF sensors available to Pentax. Until then . . . .

[cmohr]

A few teasers from our interview with Pentax Japan:

10:30(Kawauchi) We continuously consider 35mm (full-frame), but it has to be different from what other manufactures are releasing and lenses supporting 35mm have to be prepared. We think these are the principal challenges. So for example, even if we decide to make a full size SLR in the future, we will release what is not available from the other makers. We cannot comment and we do not know when it will be.

Sorry..... This makes NO SENSE!!!!!!

WHY, does Pentax make its own faithfull wait for a Fullframe, those who have stuck with Pentax and spent 1000's and 1000's of dollars along the way with Pentax, WAIT till they make QUOTE "Something" different that other Camera Manufacturers Dont make, is some wierd assumption that, that is what is required for Pentax to sell a FF camera. I Don't give a rats arse if Canon or Nikon make "JUST a FF camera", they do, nothing ground breaking, no gimicks, Just FF, I DO care that Pentax Does not make "JUST a FF camera", NO GIMICKS REQUIRED!!!!! for me to purchase THAT. The idea the Pentax Feels the only way to sell a Pentax FF is that it requires some Gimick of something that no one else in the marketplace has is Lunacy.. Hey Pentax, want to make something that NO ONE ELSE IN THE MARKET PLACE OFFERS.......... THAT WOULD BE A PENTAX FF DSLR!!!!!!!! PLAIN AND SIMPLE. In the mean time sit back and watch time and time again, Pentax loyal users continue to be forced to jump ship not because they are unhappy with Pentax equipment, but simply because Pentax refuses to see the blantantly obvious.

Sorry... end of Rant... I need a lay down now... Go to my Happy Place..happy happy happy place..

[twilhelm]

After reading one thread after another on "why don't we have a FF camera from Pentax". I've made my decision. The current line of cameras from Pentax are astounding, I love my K20d and all the many lenses I've collected the past few years. But I've decided sometime this year I'm jumping ship. That's right, I'll be making my move to a 645D.
Sorry guys, I'll be keeping my current gear too...

[Doanh]

I just want to say: don't jump into conclusion, I mean any conclusion, with just one lens which hasn't even been released yet.

Even if a FF prototype were release, it's not a sure thing. Case in point: Pentax did release a FF prototype way back when. It never materialized.

On the other hand, no one saw Pentax Q coming but there it is.

We can argue back and forth:
"FA lenses and some DA lenses work with FF, then FF must be coming" vs. "No it's not."

Pentax will not release their business plan for the world to see until they are sure a product is viable (again, even then may be not).

[jsherman999]

I've said it in one of the other many FF threads here, Pentax have always had it in their business philosophy to produce products that are practical, small, lightweight, of exemplary build quality and different to the competition. They take longer to produce their cameras and lenses, and in so doing can frustrate some impatient clients who have a high level of expectation from a company taking its time to both analyse the market and innovate in their photographic technology.

That's a very flattering way to look at it, Ash

Another way to look at it is: "They have instilled and propagated a corporate culture that values caution too highly and risk-taking too little. Over time, this general strategy can result in survival, but also a slow withering away of market position and a gathering risk to the company due to too many missed opportunities. The adoption of a recurring and cyclical wait and see tactic in the face of more aggressive competition becomes the norm."

It results in the following situation:

It's pretty clear that if people are after a FF sooner rather than later, they should be going straight to Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc. Don't bother buying into the Pentax system and complain that the FF body is not here yet. Enjoy the system as it is or get what you need elsewhere. Certainly, express your interests and petition the company for ideas on new developments, but there is never any guarantee our wishes will be heard, nor can we expect the new developments to arrive in the timeframe we please.

Ricoh still holds more potential for Pentax than most folks (I think) realize. Ricoh bought Pentax Imaging for something like $124 million USD. Another $50 million on top of that for development and introduction of a FF body and a lens roadmap, which might be a high estimate, is not a major concern for a company with $23 Billion in annual revenue and around $2.2 Billion in cash reserves.

Hope remains. I think this thread title is good, though, it allows some venting.


.

[Ash]

I Don't give a rats arse if Canon or Nikon make "JUST a FF camera", they do, nothing ground breaking, no gimicks, Just FF, I DO care that Pentax Does not make "JUST a FF camera", NO GIMICKS REQUIRED!!!!! for me to purchase THAT.

That's all well and good mate, but by now, as a Pentax faithful, you'd know that Pentax don't make things just to have them out in the marketplace sooner - they keep to their brand identity and core reasons for doing their business. Their cameras are developed after lots of research and testing - to their abilities to do as a smaller contender in the photographic market.

Pentax haven't ignored the growing concern over a lack of FF camera, and are addresing it in just about all of their media interviews. This doesn't mean they refuse to meet the demand, they are are just working on the technology for longer than their counterparts. If that means they lose a chunk of their 'faithful' I think they are willing to take that risk until they come out with a different and highly marketable product rather than just release a basic FF model sooner with a product that doesn't offer much to allure enthusiasts and pros to invest in the brand.

[Fontan]

Would you guys all crap in your pants if Canon came out with mirrorless FF? LoL

[kenyee]

I thought we were talking Windows 8 :-)