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04-12-2012, 12:59 AM   #661
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
Pentax ought to think about producing their lenses in multiple mounts, for Canon and Nikon and Sony
Thats not a bad idea, Imagine how many FA ltd's they would sell to canikon user's!

04-12-2012, 01:12 AM   #662
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
More recently though, I am seeing a shift of paradigm in all other camps (read friends). Olympus discusses the E-M5 and Sony the NEX which start to be taken seriously by enthusiasts, i.e., SLRs are already considered a thing of the past and both Canikon are fully absorbed in upgrading to FF now (esp. Nikon). I should mention the Fuji too. All of a sudden, a Pentax dSLR feels like an Olympus E-3, not the last camera of its kind, but a dead end nevertheless. I can't explain it, it is just a feeling. Of course, Canikon will not abandon crop dSLRs either. Not immediately. But they won't be the desirable things which they once were, it's my impression. And the fact that both Q and K-01 are considered toys by the other camps doesn't help either.
And the other mirrorless cameras you mentioned are not considered toys?! If we add all features, dials and switches that are missing from the NEX, we would end up with a DSLR-sised camera again.

Saying APSC DSLRS are dead is like saying a 28 year old father belongs to the elderly, because he will be replaced some time in the future. Or like we should abandon all liquid fuelled cars because the future is electric. Fact is, currently the future isn't here yet. And the question is, will that future even ever get here?

For example, look at the Nokia sensor. That's a beautiful example of out-of-the-box thinking. Such technologies could easily make the whole digital FF-concept obsolete before it ever really takes off. Another example: What if a brilliant Pentax engineer designs a body that uses the SR system to move the sensor during a shot and compose a FF sized photo in that way? In 95% of the cases APSC is sufficient, but sometimes FF would be desired. Such a feature to compose FF would be easily justified. And the cost of such a body would be K5-ish.

Last edited by Clavius; 04-12-2012 at 02:06 AM.
04-12-2012, 01:44 AM   #663
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QuoteOriginally posted by TOUGEFC Quote
Thats not a bad idea, Imagine how many FA ltd's they would sell to canikon user's!
I thought about that too but then realized that it wouldn't be promoting their own brand. But if they have no intention of developing a FF camera then why not? They'd be nuts not to sell the LTD's for Canikon if they aren't bringing out their own FF.

EDIT: Actually, I'll correct myself here.. it's probably a brilliant marketing move to establish the brand within the huge Canikon user base so I'll take back that previous comment.
04-12-2012, 01:55 AM - 1 Like   #664
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Can someone provide actual data which shows a dramatic decline of the APS-C DSLR market? (in units, please)

TOUGEFC, I'd guess few, with lower margins. Current K-mount user wouldn't buy them because they would (rightfully) feel betrayed, and wouldn't want to pay Pentax a penny. Canikon users would regard them as expensive 3rd-party lenses which are not as fast as OEMs.
My apologies if I offend someone this way, but it's a stupid idea, really.

04-12-2012, 02:03 AM   #665
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
I thought about that too but then realized that it wouldn't be promoting their own brand. But if they have no intention of developing a FF camera then why not? They'd be nuts not to sell the LTD's for Canikon if they aren't bringing out their own FF.

EDIT: Actually, I'll correct myself here.. it's probably a brilliant marketing move to establish the brand within the huge Canikon user base so I'll take back that previous comment.
Actually, the Pentax A 50 1.2 already is very popular amongst Canon users. Since their 50 1.2 sucks in comparisson. I don't know if that brought anyone over to Pentax though.

At the same time Pentax could issue a mirrorless FF with modular mount. To be sold default with K-mount, and optional Canon, Nikon, etc mounts.
04-12-2012, 02:05 AM   #666
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They could also donate all their assets to Canikon, close shop and go home. Same effect, only quicker.
04-12-2012, 03:22 AM   #667
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As soon as Pentax starts selling lenses in other mounts the K-mount takes a number of staggering steps towards death. Whilst becoming a third party manufacturer may make financial sense for Pentax-Ricoh it would turn the K-mount into the Sigma S-mount.

Pressure would slowly build on Pentax-Ricoh to abandon the K-mount altogether.
04-12-2012, 04:09 AM   #668
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Jeez.. I'm sorry I opened my mouth (well, fingers at least) in support of whomever mentioned the idea.. lol

04-12-2012, 04:12 AM   #669
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On the other hand..
Plan A: Release a few products that only a few 'nerds' will buy and go broke...

or..

Plan B: Out-Sigma Sigma and feed your family etc...
04-12-2012, 04:29 AM   #670
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
On the other hand..
Plan A: Release a few products that only a few 'nerds' will buy and go broke...

or..

Plan B: Out-Sigma Sigma and feed your family etc...
I think I'm with you on this one. If the Canikons that buy those FA ltds want SR, they're still going to need a Pentax body to attach it to.
04-12-2012, 04:46 AM   #671
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
On the other hand..
Plan B: Out-Sigma Sigma and feed your family etc...
The problem I see with the Sigma/Tamron/Tokina business (well Zeiss to some extent) is that original vendors keep their mounts protected or hide details.

E.g., see how much more successful Zeiss lenses are for Sony (under license) than they are for other brands.

So, you end up with manual focus or autofocus with questionable performance.

That's a problem for one reason: It's exactly the #1 target for the emerging Chinese optical industry (Samyang & Co.). You better are somewhere else when this develops full pace ... I.e., it's Samyang who will replace Sigma, not Pentax.
04-12-2012, 05:20 AM   #672
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bossa, you should not be sorry for expressing an opinion, even if I don't think you thought it in depth and I'm strongly opposed to it. You people are asking for the death of the K-mount system, a system I'm using. - Why?
Even the "out-Sigma Sigma" thing... how could they do it? By selling tons of cheap plastic junk lenses, and few Limiteds? To make Canikon users happy? No, thanks.
04-12-2012, 05:34 AM   #673
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
The problem I see with the Sigma/Tamron/Tokina business (well Zeiss to some extent) is that original vendors keep their mounts protected or hide details.

E.g., see how much more successful Zeiss lenses are for Sony (under license) than they are for other brands.

So, you end up with manual focus or autofocus with questionable performance.

That's a problem for one reason: It's exactly the #1 target for the emerging Chinese optical industry (Samyang & Co.). You better are somewhere else when this develops full pace ... I.e., it's Samyang who will replace Sigma, not Pentax.
If Samyang had managed AF on the current crop of lenses they would be doing huge business. As it sits they are still doing a lot of business because the lenses they are releasing represent excellent value
Once they get to the point of releasing AF product they will rapidly start challenging Sigma/tokina/Tamron
04-12-2012, 06:13 AM   #674
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But for AF, those lenses would engineered differently.
Par of the appeal of Samyang lenses is these are built 'a l'ancienne', metal, excellent feel, very good focus ring, aperture ring.
And they chose focals useful for both APS/FF (and 43 when possible).
04-12-2012, 06:13 AM   #675
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Fontan, what are you doing here, then? Jump, now!
Killing a viable system (thus upsetting and obviously losing all your customers), lowering yourself from an OEM camera&lens maker to a mere 3rd-party, paying license fees, having to compete on price... yeah, a solid busines case.
In a way, I already have jumped aps-c. My primary toy is 645d. I sold off all my DA ltds except 35/2.8 macro. I still have FA 31 and 77, and my dad uses those with K-7 that I gave him. My compact set up is M8, and I actually have 43-L special for Leica with OVF. Oh, I still have da * 50-135 with busted SDM. It is a shame, because it is a lovely lense.

Now, purely from business standpoint, to abandon aps-c dslr makes sense to me. Why spend So much R and D for a dying segment of the market, especially when the market share is so minuscule to big in with? If they are to spend any R and D on a camera body with and without mirror, FF has far more foresights in it. Catering to a cult following is fine as long as that following is significant in numbers. But it is not.

I understand that to kill off a mount like K mount has its own price. But, beating a dead horse has its own set of consequences. This company is no better off financially if not worse compared to where they were five years ago, even with the success they had with 645d.

At this point in time, the best thing about this company is the optical quality of its lenses ( although no longer a bargain, however). They might as well exploit that. Establish themselves as the superior alternatives to Tamron/Sigma/Tokina for Canikon users, which is a gigantic user base. Spend that R and D on in-lense SR. Come up with lenses for m4/3. Then, Ricoh should come out with FF k mount adapter for GXR.
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