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02-16-2012, 11:09 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
You still want others to take a huge risk so you can have FF
Honestly, no. I have FF, now. I want and expect Ricoh to spend money in order to make money, so that Pentax will not become a kitsch-niche brand. And it's not really even a relative risk in the same way it was with Pentax-standalone, Ricoh could equity-fund the entire initiative with less than one's year's interest on it's existing cash reserve, if it wanted to. ('interest' really meaning a conservative return on the near-liquid assets that make up the 'cash reserve'.)

QuoteQuote:
These are cameras. There are no untapped markets.
China, India, Indonesia.


QuoteQuote:
The D800 is going to make no more people spend $2,999 on a camera body per year than the D700 did when it was first introduced
I predict the D800 will outsell the D700 by a significant margin, unless they release a D700s (or D600, etc) that splits the sales at that level.

QuoteQuote:
plus natural growth in the market as a whole.
There you have it. Natural growth in the ICL market is the reason Ricoh bought Pentax in the first place. I think the only reason they wouldn't go FF is if they have no real intention of keeping K-mount around for any length of time, because selling K-mount lenses in a mirrorless-disrupted aps-c market with Fuji, Panasonic, Samsung, Sony hitting almost as hard as the traditional big two is going to be a tough haul. (And even then, after killing K-mount, they may eventually end up going FF with a new mount on mirrorless.)




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Last edited by jsherman999; 02-16-2012 at 11:19 PM.
02-16-2012, 11:43 PM   #62
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Hmm I read it earlier.. now it's gone.. did someone edit their post??? Hmm.. wonder regardless it was in here...

what I'm wondering is where these supposed 10's of millions of dollars are going to be spent.. if not on actual models being rolled off assembly lines to be sold..
Pentax has to R&D their AF and flash systems, their SR system (but to save space/cost AND improve flash sync/flash system overall.. I'm more than OK with a FF solution with no SR), and firmware.. Pentax does not make/design their RAM, image processor, image sensors, SD card slot, batteries, LCD screens.. I'm just wondering if not on actual PARTS for the cameras.. where are these "10's of millions" going?

If your stating that it would go into AF/Flash/Firmware development.. that's a fairly moot point, as they continue to R&D these things for every upcoming generation.. it's standard business to stay in the game..

The HUGE investment would be landing a FF sensor supplier and hopefully not in the hiring of some "Famous designer" to make the body..
02-16-2012, 11:48 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
I predict the D800 will outsell the D700 by a significant margin, unless they release a D700s (or D600, etc) that splits the sales at that level.
I could see a low end entry level D700s with the same sensor, updated with an SD card slot and a new processor that can do video as well, even if it's 720P @ 30 FPS / 1080p @ 24 FPS.. it would be a shoe in for the $2000 price area right now.. It's competition (5DM2) only sells well because of it's video features and higher MP count...but the IQ/AF/flash system/Low light performance are ALL D700.
With the 5DM2 selling now for $2000, if they threw any video into the D700s it would not be much of a choice unless already invested in Canon.
02-17-2012, 01:42 AM   #64
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How cool would it be if Ricoh bought Kodak's sensor division?

02-17-2012, 01:59 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
How cool would it be if Ricoh bought Kodak's sensor division?
Kodak sensor division is already sold on 2011.
02-17-2012, 02:02 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Kodak sensor division is already sold on 2011.
Dang, I missed that bit. Would have been fabulous though.
02-17-2012, 02:36 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Dang, I missed that bit. Would have been fabulous though.
Kodak sells image sensor division | News | TechRadar
02-17-2012, 03:04 AM   #68
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Well, if 43mm is the "perfect" normal, then a 50 has to be a normal to mid-tele..

02-17-2012, 03:40 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by einstrigger Quote
Not as sweet, since there is nothing similar from Nikon in terms of focal length, size, or build when compared to the Pentax limiteds. Of course, Nikon has other offerings that are more traditional and just as sweet, like their 35mm 1.4g or 85mm 1.4g, but if you thought the Limiteds were expensive, you'll be in for more sticker shock with Nikon.
Drop down to the Nikon 1.8 lenses, and the price is very reasonable. How does US$750 for a 35/1.8, a 50/1.8 and a 85/1.8 sound? Not each, but for all 3?

Getting a pristine but used D700 locally for US$1,500 is also easy. It's looking like a mighty fine option for me...
02-17-2012, 04:23 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
...and EXTREMELY welcome. Hell I'd prefer a K-r sized full frame but I suspect I'm in the minority.
And lighter than the K-5! Make it lighter than air through a nano-tube chassis (Or maybe wait with that until we have a similar solution for lenses )
02-17-2012, 04:26 AM   #71
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The Pentax FF should not give reasons for its owners to want to go back to the K-5. The D700 is quite an old camera, whilst the D7000 is relatively new. Pentax again will do its research and create a marketable and desirable FF camera. This doesn't take anything away from the D700 - it's a fantastic camera and still outdoes the D7000 and K-5 in many important aspects, not just high ISO performance.
02-17-2012, 04:43 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
Drop down to the Nikon 1.8 lenses, and the price is very reasonable. How does US$750 for a 35/1.8, a 50/1.8 and a 85/1.8 sound? Not each, but for all 3?

Getting a pristine but used D700 locally for US$1,500 is also easy. It's looking like a mighty fine option for me...
Where Nikon is lacking is in the mid-priced lenses. They have cheap lenses and they have really expensive lenses, but not so much in the middle. Nothing really the equivalent of the FA limiteds. Pentax is starting to fill in the cheap prime line up -- DA 35 f2.4, now 50 f1.8. I doubt they will release an 85 f2 unless they release a full frame camera (and by the way, 35 f1.8 is a Dx lens, not Fx).

I think the whole thread is a tempest in a teapot. It was clear under Hoya that Pentax would play a very conservative game and was unlikely to go into the full frame arena. It is really unclear to me what Ricoh's plan is (and probably unclear to them as well). The full frame market is pretty crowded. Full frame lenses are expensive and people who already have full frame with one brand are likely to stick with it due to inertia unless there is something different and amazing that would come out. Pentax doesn't have lenses for it either. Still, I think there will be an announcement at the end of this year and Pentaxians will (mostly) be happy...
02-17-2012, 05:14 AM   #73
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Obviously, Pentax changed the lens designation because the old one gave away too much of their secret plans.

...waits for another 5 pages of crazy speculation to ensue....
02-17-2012, 06:16 AM   #74
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The waiting and hoping has become a rather funny mixture with herbs of despair and a pinch of bitterness. I have but one life. And its span is limited. Pentax is not my child.
Still, it 's been in my system for far to long now.
I really don't care so much for all the corporate musings and speculative thoughts. Scanning it is ok, just. Well, the waiting was good for one thing at least. I kept filling my ff piggy bag and by the end of this year it will be so filled, that even if a ff miraculously does appear, I might not want it anymore, simply because I shall buy a second piggy bag and start to fill that one, because, well, it is the only way to once reach out succesfully for a mf. I have always known Pentax was THE way for me to (not) go.
02-17-2012, 07:23 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
I don't understand the FF lust. Recently ended up on a Nikon forum and many of the 700 owners were selling their cameras ( not to get a D800) but to use the D7000 they also owned. Many said the D7000 beat the 700, especially in dynamic range and landscape photography. One advantage the 700 had was high ISO. The large viewfinder would be nice too.
thanks
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I don't see this at all over on FM.
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