Pentax Full Frame Dream Crushed Today

**Pål Jensen** · 04-25-2012, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by twitch

If that rumor is true and the price is good, then Nikon will kill the "high end" APS-C DSLR market that the K-5 plays in. This is the pincer movement spoken about for a while now; cheap FX from above and m4/3s from below, eating APS-C DSLR's lunch..

Not likely. With falling sensor prices APS cameras will be even cheaper thereby eating into 4/3 if anything (actually APS is very sucessful and theres no reason for larger sensors for the main mass market). When lenses are taken into consideration, particulary those that makes an FF sensor justice, the price difference will be significant.
It is a mistake to believe that all, or even a majority, even wants full frame. Most DSLR users have no bonding to the 35mm format and are more than happy with the results and the advantages the APS format gives.....

Anyway, the D600 probably use the rumored 24mp sensor and will probably cost around $2700 which makes it out of reach for 95% of all DSLR buyers. Then theres the lenses...

Last edited by Pål Jensen; 04-25-2012 at 05:40 PM.

bossa · 04-25-2012, 05:40 PM

All I can say about the rumoured D600 is "uh oh" and "Oh Dear" lol.

It looks like Nikon is running a fire hose over the DSLR market and anyone that isn't up to it will get washed away pretty soon. Those who think that Pentax is just starting to work on a Full Frame are also kidding themselves. They've probably had fully developed CAD models for ages that just need tooling up in a factory and tweaked for specific sensors and software/

On the other hand, it does seem like they're playing their cards a little too close to their chests at this stage and.. by September... only hard core APS-C lovers will remain to turn off the lights if something isn't announced soon.. at least.

PS> I don't know if I said this on this (or another) thread but I spoke to a Pentax rep a few days ago and was told that CR Kennedy are now also the Ricoh distributors in Oz. I was told that there will be no FF GXR K-mount module as well. All up, there's just no exciting news thus far from Pentax and If I wasn't so heavily invested in the system I would already have jumped.

**Belnan** · 04-25-2012, 05:48 PM

Pentax will release a full frame, and we will see it befor this time next year.
I have heard from someone, who has a source that said a full frame this fall. (heresay I know)
With Sony A99 coming late summer, and now the d600? This seems much more likely.
I remain patient, and hopefull that this will happen. I hope it is alot like the K5 only slightly bigger
with a bright optical viewfinder. If Pentax wishes to remain a significant player in the dslr field then
they have to compete in the whole market from entry to profesional.
If Pentax does it right it will be a success.
Look at the fuji x1 pro, three lenses on a camera with far more issues than the K5 ever had and
people are singing its praises.

ElJamoquio · 04-25-2012, 05:52 PM

I doubt Nikon will have one FF Camera at $3000 and one at $2700. My guess is $2200.

**Pål Jensen** · 04-25-2012, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

I doubt Nikon will have one FF Camera at $3000 and one at $2700. My guess is $2200.

Don't make much of a difference. The $2000+ segment is not where the volume of the DSLR market is.

ElJamoquio · 04-25-2012, 06:07 PM

Of course. And of course Nikon just announced their entry-ish level camera has the Pentax 'flagship' sensor! Eek!

**Pål Jensen** · 04-25-2012, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by Belnan

Pentax will release a full frame, and we will see it befor this time next year.
I have heard from someone, who has a source that said a full frame this fall. (heresay I know)
With Sony A99 coming late summer, and now the d600? This seems much more likely.
I remain patient, and hopefull that this will happen. I hope it is alot like the K5 only slightly bigger
with a bright optical viewfinder. .

I'll certainly buy one;. The 645D is too expensive and the Nikon is too ugly (one of the ugliest man made objects ever; and this in a product that is supposed to be used for making something of aestetic value!

). I have complete set of lenses from 18 to 600mm; all Pentax (obviously)

.

twitch · 04-25-2012, 06:14 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

Don't make much of a difference. The $2000+ segment is not where the volume of the DSLR market is.

FF will eat up the "pro" APS-C segment, the $1,500-$2,000 MSRP segment, not the volume models like the rebel and D3200/D5100 end. That end of the segment is being eaten by m4/3s. NEX & Fuji.

twitch · 04-25-2012, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by bossa

All I can say about the rumoured D600 is "uh oh" and "Oh Dear" lol.

It looks like Nikon is running a fire hose over the DSLR market and anyone that isn't up to it will get washed away pretty soon. Those who think that Pentax is just starting to work on a Full Frame are also kidding themselves. They've probably had fully developed CAD models for ages that just need tooling up in a factory and tweaked for specific sensors and software/

On the other hand, it does seem like they're playing their cards a little too close to their chests at this stage and.. by September... only hard core APS-C lovers will remain to turn off the lights if something isn't announced soon.. at least.

Agree. This year is turning into a watershed year for the camera market. Models like the x-pro1 & OMD mean m4/3s are getting serious, the NEX-7 likewise for APS-C mirrorless, and the D800 has redefined the FF market. A D600 entry level FF will decimate the K-5, 7D & D300s segment. If Pentax just do "more of the same" this year they will be signing a death warrant for k-mount.

bossa · 04-25-2012, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by twitch

Agree. This year is turning into a watershed year for the camera market. Models like the x-pro1 & OMD mean m4/3s are getting serious, the NEX-7 likewise for APS-C mirrorless, and the D800 has redefined the FF market. A D600 entry level FF will decimate the K-5, 7D & D300s segment. If Pentax just do "more of the same" this year they will be signing a death warrant for k-mount.

That's how it looks to me and I'd love to hang around for the duration but at my age time is a luxury.

mecrox · 04-25-2012, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by bossa

That's how it looks to me and I'd love to hang around for the duration but at my age time is a luxury.

Lol, time is a luxury, period. Imho, consistency is one of a company's strongest cards and uncertainty is one of its biggest weaknesses. You probably wouldn't buy a car from a company if you thought that by this time next year it would have switched out of cars and into three-wheelers and trucks. Pentax must be losing sales because folks just don't know whether high-end Pentax APS-C will still figure in a year or whether K-mount is a true path rather than an experiment in the mirrorless market. Why spend 1000 bucks on a lens only to find you already own the maker's last and final body on which you can use it? I don't mind which way Pentax go but their inability to say to the market "here we are, this is what we do" is a killer when you can walk into a store today and find products from 3-4 other companies which do say that.

Kunzite · 04-25-2012, 10:12 PM

Pentax was quite clear about the direction they're going. 8 new K-mount lenses in 2 years, remember?

bossa · 04-25-2012, 10:20 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Pentax was quite clear about the direction they're going. 8 new K-mount lenses in 2 years, remember?

Yes but lenses are only 1/2 the story.

Kunzite · 04-25-2012, 10:25 PM

Lenses are long-term, unlike the bodies - so it doesn't make sense to plan for new lenses but not release any camera. Besides, even the K-01 tells us the K-mount will continue.

jsherman999 · 04-25-2012, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by jsherman999

(in Feb)

Originally posted by Aristophanes:

The D800 is going to make no more people spend $2,999 on a camera body per year than the D700 did when it was first introduced

I predict the D800 will outsell the D700 by a significant margin, unless they release a D700s (or D600, etc) that splits the sales at that level.

D800 blowing out the door, as predicted, well beyond D700 numbers - now we'll have to see what the D600, if it's real, brings to the equation!

.

04-25-2012, 05:40 PM	#767
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	All I can say about the rumoured D600 is "uh oh" and "Oh Dear" lol. It looks like Nikon is running a fire hose over the DSLR market and anyone that isn't up to it will get washed away pretty soon. Those who think that Pentax is just starting to work on a Full Frame are also kidding themselves. They've probably had fully developed CAD models for ages that just need tooling up in a factory and tweaked for specific sensors and software/ On the other hand, it does seem like they're playing their cards a little too close to their chests at this stage and.. by September... only hard core APS-C lovers will remain to turn off the lights if something isn't announced soon.. at least. PS> I don't know if I said this on this (or another) thread but I spoke to a Pentax rep a few days ago and was told that CR Kennedy are now also the Ricoh distributors in Oz. I was told that there will be no FF GXR K-mount module as well. All up, there's just no exciting news thus far from Pentax and If I wasn't so heavily invested in the system I would already have jumped. Last edited by bossa; 04-25-2012 at 07:09 PM.

04-25-2012, 05:48 PM	#768
Belnan Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Nova Scotia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,090	The writing is on the wall Pentax will release a full frame, and we will see it befor this time next year. I have heard from someone, who has a source that said a full frame this fall. (heresay I know) With Sony A99 coming late summer, and now the d600? This seems much more likely. I remain patient, and hopefull that this will happen. I hope it is alot like the K5 only slightly bigger with a bright optical viewfinder. If Pentax wishes to remain a significant player in the dslr field then they have to compete in the whole market from entry to profesional. If Pentax does it right it will be a success. Look at the fuji x1 pro, three lenses on a camera with far more issues than the K5 ever had and people are singing its praises.

04-25-2012, 06:08 PM	#772
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Belnan Pentax will release a full frame, and we will see it befor this time next year. I have heard from someone, who has a source that said a full frame this fall. (heresay I know) With Sony A99 coming late summer, and now the d600? This seems much more likely. I remain patient, and hopefull that this will happen. I hope it is alot like the K5 only slightly bigger with a bright optical viewfinder. . I'll certainly buy one;. The 645D is too expensive and the Nikon is too ugly (one of the ugliest man made objects ever; and this in a product that is supposed to be used for making something of aestetic value!). I have complete set of lenses from 18 to 600mm; all Pentax (obviously).

04-25-2012, 06:42 PM	#775
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	Originally posted by twitch Agree. This year is turning into a watershed year for the camera market. Models like the x-pro1 & OMD mean m4/3s are getting serious, the NEX-7 likewise for APS-C mirrorless, and the D800 has redefined the FF market. A D600 entry level FF will decimate the K-5, 7D & D300s segment. If Pentax just do "more of the same" this year they will be signing a death warrant for k-mount. That's how it looks to me and I'd love to hang around for the duration but at my age time is a luxury. Last edited by bossa; 04-25-2012 at 07:03 PM.

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04-25-2012, 05:34 PM	#766
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by twitch If that rumor is true and the price is good, then Nikon will kill the "high end" APS-C DSLR market that the K-5 plays in. This is the pincer movement spoken about for a while now; cheap FX from above and m4/3s from below, eating APS-C DSLR's lunch.. Not likely. With falling sensor prices APS cameras will be even cheaper thereby eating into 4/3 if anything (actually APS is very sucessful and theres no reason for larger sensors for the main mass market). When lenses are taken into consideration, particulary those that makes an FF sensor justice, the price difference will be significant. It is a mistake to believe that all, or even a majority, even wants full frame. Most DSLR users have no bonding to the 35mm format and are more than happy with the results and the advantages the APS format gives..... Anyway, the D600 probably use the rumored 24mp sensor and will probably cost around $2700 which makes it out of reach for 95% of all DSLR buyers. Then theres the lenses... Last edited by Pål Jensen; 04-25-2012 at 05:40 PM.

04-25-2012, 05:52 PM	#769
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	I doubt Nikon will have one FF Camera at $3000 and one at $2700. My guess is $2200.

04-25-2012, 06:03 PM	#770
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by ElJamoquio I doubt Nikon will have one FF Camera at $3000 and one at $2700. My guess is $2200. Don't make much of a difference. The $2000+ segment is not where the volume of the DSLR market is.

04-25-2012, 06:07 PM	#771
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Of course. And of course Nikon just announced their entry-ish level camera has the Pentax 'flagship' sensor! Eek!

04-25-2012, 06:14 PM - 1 Like	#773
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	Originally posted by Pål Jensen Don't make much of a difference. The $2000+ segment is not where the volume of the DSLR market is. FF will eat up the "pro" APS-C segment, the $1,500-$2,000 MSRP segment, not the volume models like the rebel and D3200/D5100 end. That end of the segment is being eaten by m4/3s. NEX & Fuji.

04-25-2012, 06:20 PM	#774
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	Originally posted by bossa All I can say about the rumoured D600 is "uh oh" and "Oh Dear" lol. It looks like Nikon is running a fire hose over the DSLR market and anyone that isn't up to it will get washed away pretty soon. Those who think that Pentax is just starting to work on a Full Frame are also kidding themselves. They've probably had fully developed CAD models for ages that just need tooling up in a factory and tweaked for specific sensors and software/ On the other hand, it does seem like they're playing their cards a little too close to their chests at this stage and.. by September... only hard core APS-C lovers will remain to turn off the lights if something isn't announced soon.. at least. Agree. This year is turning into a watershed year for the camera market. Models like the x-pro1 & OMD mean m4/3s are getting serious, the NEX-7 likewise for APS-C mirrorless, and the D800 has redefined the FF market. A D600 entry level FF will decimate the K-5, 7D & D300s segment. If Pentax just do "more of the same" this year they will be signing a death warrant for k-mount.

04-25-2012, 10:01 PM	#776
mecrox Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by bossa That's how it looks to me and I'd love to hang around for the duration but at my age time is a luxury. Lol, time is a luxury, period. Imho, consistency is one of a company's strongest cards and uncertainty is one of its biggest weaknesses. You probably wouldn't buy a car from a company if you thought that by this time next year it would have switched out of cars and into three-wheelers and trucks. Pentax must be losing sales because folks just don't know whether high-end Pentax APS-C will still figure in a year or whether K-mount is a true path rather than an experiment in the mirrorless market. Why spend 1000 bucks on a lens only to find you already own the maker's last and final body on which you can use it? I don't mind which way Pentax go but their inability to say to the market "here we are, this is what we do" is a killer when you can walk into a store today and find products from 3-4 other companies which do say that.

04-25-2012, 10:12 PM	#777
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Pentax was quite clear about the direction they're going. 8 new K-mount lenses in 2 years, remember?

04-25-2012, 10:20 PM	#778
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	Originally posted by Kunzite Pentax was quite clear about the direction they're going. 8 new K-mount lenses in 2 years, remember? Yes but lenses are only 1/2 the story.

04-25-2012, 10:25 PM	#779
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Lenses are long-term, unlike the bodies - so it doesn't make sense to plan for new lenses but not release any camera. Besides, even the K-01 tells us the K-mount will continue.

04-25-2012, 10:51 PM	#780
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Originally posted by jsherman999 (in Feb) Originally posted by Aristophanes: The D800 is going to make no more people spend $2,999 on a camera body per year than the D700 did when it was first introduced I predict the D800 will outsell the D700 by a significant margin, unless they release a D700s (or D600, etc) that splits the sales at that level. D800 blowing out the door, as predicted, well beyond D700 numbers - now we'll have to see what the D600, if it's real, brings to the equation! .