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07-22-2012, 02:52 PM   #571
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The wafers are circular, and big enough so that several sensors can be fit on them (e.g. 300mm diameter). On those, the APS-C sized sensors are made through a lithographic process, and of course they are cut to size.
There's no such thing as cutting an APS-H sensor to APS-C.
OK, but someone wrote that the biggest sensors you could make out of a wafer is aps-h (in some of the over 9000 FF threads), and it's because of that canon made some cameras with asp-h sensors.

Wouldn't it be nice with aps-h in the k-5 replacement? :-)

07-22-2012, 03:34 PM   #572
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FF sensor are made from wafers as well?!

They are around 300mm wide, so there should be enough space

I think FF or APS-C dont do something like APS-H ? For what? Whats the usable advantage despite doing everything new?
07-22-2012, 03:38 PM   #573
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxtic Quote
Would it be possible for Pentax to produce a hybrid of full frame and aps-c? This way both side of the full frame and aps-c camp is satisfied.
Thumbs up for most entertaining post.
07-22-2012, 03:38 PM   #574
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mehlsack Quote
Whats the usable advantage despite doing everything new?
Probably not as 'expensive' and big as FF, but still bigger and more 'pro' than APS-C. Its a compromise, to appease the FF fetishists while retaining some of the APS-C benefits. Theoretically. Maybe. Who knows! Maybe we'll get a massive triangular sensor. Now that would be different.

07-22-2012, 03:41 PM - 1 Like   #575
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Its a compromise
The compromise is called APS-C. I cannot think of a name for APS-H though
07-22-2012, 04:02 PM - 1 Like   #576
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I cannot think of a name for APS-H though
I think it is called "half ass."
07-22-2012, 06:35 PM   #577
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Prepare for disappointment if one expects a FF camera by Sept.

I can already see the gnashing of teeth and angry words and threads proclaiming the end times in Sept
07-22-2012, 06:59 PM   #578
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QuoteOriginally posted by fikkser Quote
The viewfinder of an APS-C shows the DoF of f2,8, so if you do manual focus at f1,2-1,4 you will not nail every shot. You might learn just about where the focus is, even if you can't see it.
I can see 1.2 just fine with Canon Eees viewfinder in the K-5...

07-22-2012, 09:06 PM - 1 Like   #579
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
The compromise is called APS-C. I cannot think of a name for APS-H though
APS-C and APS-H are varying degrees of crap factor.
07-23-2012, 01:23 AM   #580
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Probably not as 'expensive' and big as FF, but still bigger and more 'pro' than APS-C. Its a compromise, to appease the FF fetishists while retaining some of the APS-C benefits. Theoretically. Maybe.
I was once told that APS-H is even much cheaper then FF sensors, because with FF sensors have to be stitched whilst APS-H sensors can be created in one go. But I don't know if FF sensor still need that stitching nowadays.

Another advantage is that ALL DA lenses will work on APS-H.

But, I agree, it's almost FF... but not FF. So everybody longing for FF, except a few, will be dissapointed.

If Pentax wants to play the "unique-card" it should be more unique then APS-H. Or, APS-H plus some other unique feature. (Maybe the combination APS-H, SR, WR and K5-sized body would be enough? I'd buy that! Oh, and it could include Wifi.)

Otherwise they should just give their fans what they are craving. (Which is impossible of course.)
07-23-2012, 01:28 AM   #581
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Please stop the APS-H discussion right here, now. APS-C DSLR's are bound to die in favor of mirrorless cameras. APS-H is simply too expensive to manufacture in the quantities Pentax would want. FF is here to stay for premium DSLR's with glass prisms and superb, large viewfinders.

Over the course of years only a few film formats survived and APS-C(heap) is not one of them. Period.
07-23-2012, 01:45 AM   #582
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
Please stop the APS-H discussion right here, now. APS-C DSLR's are bound to die in favor of mirrorless cameras. APS-H is simply too expensive to manufacture in the quantities Pentax would want. FF is here to stay for premium DSLR's with glass prisms and superb, large viewfinders.

Over the course of years only a few film formats survived and APS-C(heap) is not one of them. Period.
But Olympus is getting a m43 version of some Sony sensor, that is not too expensive for them? Probably not. :-) I think there's alot of bull about how hard it is to buy sensors floating around, especially from one FF hater on these forums.

Also Nokia seems to be the only one using that Toshiba 41mp sensor, is that too expensive? Pentax could make a FF version of that, would be like a gazillion mp.
07-23-2012, 01:53 AM   #583
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QuoteOriginally posted by fikkser Quote
Also Nokia seems to be the only one using that Toshiba 41mp sensor, is that too expensive? Pentax could make a FF version of that, would be like a gazillion mp.
They could make an APS-H version of that too. Wouldn't a APS-H version of the Toshiba 41mp sensor outresolve all FF sensors currently out there?

Sorry, I like APS-H because it's different. Same reason why I like Pentax.
07-23-2012, 02:01 AM   #584
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QuoteOriginally posted by fikkser Quote
OK, but someone wrote that the biggest sensors you could make out of a wafer is aps-h (in some of the over 9000 FF threads), and it's because of that canon made some cameras with asp-h sensors.

Wouldn't it be nice with aps-h in the k-5 replacement? :-)
Think of it this way: you have a pizza-sized wafer, and on it you can "draw" several sensors, each having a maximum size of an APS-H (because the equipment doesn't allow you to "draw" anything larger - this is debatable, it's not unlikely they've managed to increase this limit to "FF"). But since you want APS-C sensors, that's what you'll make.
You won't make an APS-H sensor, cutting it down to APS-C - you cannot cut electronic circuits.

APS-H would be nice only in certain conditions:
- it's cheap enough (only slightly more expensive than APS-C, definitely less than FF)
- it's good enough (must have an advantage over the best APS-C sensors, must not be much below the best FF sensors)
- people would accept that Pentax doesn't have a FF but a "lesser" format ("FF" vs "APS-H" choice)
With a limited market share, I doubt they can easily clear the "cheap" and "good" conditions. A "FF" using a readily available sensor seems much safer.

Asahiflex, don't hold your breath while waiting for the APS-C DSLRs to die
APS film died from different reasons; it was both worse and more expensive than the small format film.
07-23-2012, 03:10 AM   #585
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Prepare for disappointment if one expects a FF camera by Sept.

I can already see the gnashing of teeth and angry words and threads proclaiming the end times in Sept
They're not going to release a full frame camera this year. While they do have the capacity to do so, it's not a wise move as of now.
The reason is simple. No DA*-zoom works on full frame. Only a few of the DA-Primes work on it. Putting a full frame on the market without a proper professional lens lineup is a waste of R&D-capacity and money.

But that doesn't mean they don't have to release a "professional" camera this year. Think of what Canon has done with the 7D. Think 24 megapixel APS-C sensor by Sony (the practical limit to APS-C, resolution wise).

With Ricoh in the back, they're certainly going to release a full frame camera within the next two years. But first, there's a need for a few new DA*-zooms and primes (with better AF motor).
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