Pentax full frame rumour

bossa · 07-26-2012, 08:52 PM

Regarding the 60-250 not being all that great on a FF: What is the point of that argument? The lens is marketed as a APS-C lens AND there's no Pentax FF DSLR. There's only a couple of reasons to deliberately judge something out of context and they are that you are either an idiot or you enjoy stirring people. I like my 60-250 very much most of the time but will admit it does need stopping down to F7.1 to get razor sharp results. But then again, my Nikon 70-200 VRII doesn't get sharp in the middle until F4 and the edges don't get there until F8 and that lens is very highly rated too. The Nikon cost me 3 grand and I paid 900 for the Pentax.

LamyTax · 07-26-2012, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by bossa

Regarding the 60-250 not being all that great on a FF: What is the point of that argument? The lens is marketed as a APS-C lens AND there's no Pentax FF DSLR.

You know the point of my argument. I've actually written that one out (also, look at the thread title). Why are you taking things out of context? >>

Quote:

There's only a couple of reasons to deliberately judge something out of context and they are that you are either an idiot or you enjoy stirring people.

Quote:

I like my 60-250 very much most of the time but will admit it does need stopping down to F7.1 to get razor sharp results. But then again, my Nikon 70-200 VRII doesn't get sharp in the middle until F4 and the edges don't get there until F8 and that lens is very highly rated too. The Nikon cost me 3 grand and I paid 900 for the Pentax.

A 200/2.8 uses larger lenses (exactly that, 200mm/2.8, 250/4 is ~8.9mm smaller, which is quite a lot more surface area), it has VR which needs even more glass. And that glass is expensive. So, let's look at something more comparable. The Canon 70-200/4 comes to mind, and that one is damn sharp wide open.
Most lenses are sharp at f/8, especially the better ones, aren't they.

Now step back for a second. All you guys want Pentax FF. Such a camera will likely have a high resolution sensor. Wouldn't you guys want to have glass that's just perfect for that? With the 645D Pentax has seen that old film lenses don't neccessarily work great for digital. I'd prefer a new set of digital FF-optimized lenses ready as soon as they roll the body out.

Alizarine · 07-26-2012, 10:59 PM

As much as I'd like to see all of the good stuff (great bodies, excellent lenses, superb accessories) come out at the same time, reality dictates that Pentax cannot, or at least at this point in time.

Clavius · 07-27-2012, 12:15 AM

Originally posted by LamyTax

Now step back for a second. All you guys want Pentax FF. Such a camera will likely have a high resolution sensor. Wouldn't you guys want to have glass that's just perfect for that?

Yes we do! FF primes will deliver the highest IQ on FF. And they are already there.

Clavius · 07-27-2012, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by Alizarine

As much as I'd like to see all of the good stuff (great bodies, excellent lenses, superb accessories) come out at the same time, reality dictates that Pentax cannot, or at least at this point in time.

The only reason for that would be that it's still too soon after Hoya. Because remember that Pentax Ricoh Imaging is a different company now, with extremely deep pockets, compared to Pentax Hoya.

bossa · 07-27-2012, 12:19 AM

The Canon 70-200/4 was fine on smaller [I meant lo-res] sensors but fell apart when tested on higher res sensors.

24X36NOW · 07-27-2012, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by bossa

The Canon 70-200/4 was fine on smaller [I meant lo-res] sensors but fell apart when tested on higher res sensors.

I don't see that at all; check the MTF charts here, and you'll see it actually outperforms (or performs just as well as) both the 70-200/2.8IS AND the 70-200/2.8ISII...

DxOMark - Compare lenses

bossa · 07-27-2012, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by 24X36NOW

I don't see that at all; check the MTF charts here, and you'll see it actually outperforms (or performs just as well as) both the 70-200/2.8IS AND the 70-200/2.8ISII...

DxOMark - Compare lenses

Actually you are right. I had looked at that lens tested on various sensor sizes about a year ago at Photozone. My experiences have taught me a few more things over these past 12 months so I take your point.

hermitlun · 07-27-2012, 05:11 PM

My hope to get Pentax FF late this year!

ElJamoquio · 07-27-2012, 06:11 PM

I think that might be a bit too aggressive. I think that Pentax might announce something at Photokina but at best it will be early next year.

An october release (for christmas) would be great but I think it's a bit much to expect that of a project that was only kicked off in October or so of last year.

Alizarine · 07-27-2012, 09:20 PM

Maybe not even an official announcement- a teaser, maybe. Just so to maintain their "aura of mystery" or something like that

Emacs · 07-28-2012, 10:00 AM

In St.Petersburg russian pentax distributor (Pentar) representative told K-1 with 36x24 sensor will be announced in march 2013

Raffwal · 07-28-2012, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by Emacs

In St.Petersburg russian pentax distributor (Pentar) representative told K-1 with 36x24 sensor will be announced in march 2013

If that is true, in Pentax years that means a premature announcement in March 2013, a second announcement in September 2013 and availability in 2015?

atlnq9 · 07-28-2012, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by LamyTax

With the 645D Pentax has seen that old film lenses don't neccessarily work great for digital.

The only two lenses that don't "work great" on the 645D are the 33-55mm and 45mm. And those weren't great performers on film either. The 33-55mm was a huge stretch to make for the 645 format and was full of compromises. The 45mm was never marketed as a high end lens. The place for that was the 35mm and 45-85.

No major complaints on any of the others. There are a few quality control issues on the others which become more apparent on the 645D as opposed to film in lab settings. But these are mostly all not specifically noticed in field use.

I would say it is nothing bad about the design of any of the 645 lens for film when used on the 645D. In fact the "digitally optimized" 55mm isn't as great a performer as many of the film lenses.

Don't say the old film lens designs can't be implemented on a full frame digital versions.

**Fontan** · 07-28-2012, 07:25 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Raffwal

If that is true, in Pentax years that means a premature announcement in March 2013, a second announcement in September 2013 and availability in 2015?

You know, there can be several "updates" with APS-C cams until FF comes out, and it just may be cheaper to buy D800 and few lenses and be done with it right this moment. I mean we only live once. What if we die before Pentax FF comes out? That ain't cool. I want FF now! I want my photos to get that shallow depth of field right this minute. How can I possibly deprive my fans of such shallowness? What about all the weddings being shot with Pentax, without being shallow in their depth of conscious (i meant field)? I can't do that. It's wrong. It's immoral.

07-26-2012, 10:54 PM	#632
LamyTax Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 376	Originally posted by bossa Regarding the 60-250 not being all that great on a FF: What is the point of that argument? The lens is marketed as a APS-C lens AND there's no Pentax FF DSLR. You know the point of my argument. I've actually written that one out (also, look at the thread title). Why are you taking things out of context? >> Quote: There's only a couple of reasons to deliberately judge something out of context and they are that you are either an idiot or you enjoy stirring people. Quote: I like my 60-250 very much most of the time but will admit it does need stopping down to F7.1 to get razor sharp results. But then again, my Nikon 70-200 VRII doesn't get sharp in the middle until F4 and the edges don't get there until F8 and that lens is very highly rated too. The Nikon cost me 3 grand and I paid 900 for the Pentax. A 200/2.8 uses larger lenses (exactly that, 200mm/2.8, 250/4 is ~8.9mm smaller, which is quite a lot more surface area), it has VR which needs even more glass. And that glass is expensive. So, let's look at something more comparable. The Canon 70-200/4 comes to mind, and that one is damn sharp wide open. Most lenses are sharp at f/8, especially the better ones, aren't they. Now step back for a second. All you guys want Pentax FF. Such a camera will likely have a high resolution sensor. Wouldn't you guys want to have glass that's just perfect for that? With the 645D Pentax has seen that old film lenses don't neccessarily work great for digital. I'd prefer a new set of digital FF-optimized lenses ready as soon as they roll the body out. Last edited by LamyTax; 07-26-2012 at 11:50 PM.

07-28-2012, 02:13 PM	#644
atlnq9 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Arizona Photos: Albums Posts: 330	Originally posted by LamyTax With the 645D Pentax has seen that old film lenses don't neccessarily work great for digital. The only two lenses that don't "work great" on the 645D are the 33-55mm and 45mm. And those weren't great performers on film either. The 33-55mm was a huge stretch to make for the 645 format and was full of compromises. The 45mm was never marketed as a high end lens. The place for that was the 35mm and 45-85. No major complaints on any of the others. There are a few quality control issues on the others which become more apparent on the 645D as opposed to film in lab settings. But these are mostly all not specifically noticed in field use. I would say it is nothing bad about the design of any of the 645 lens for film when used on the 645D. In fact the "digitally optimized" 55mm isn't as great a performer as many of the film lenses. Don't say the old film lens designs can't be implemented on a full frame digital versions. Last edited by atlnq9; 07-28-2012 at 02:22 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
The full frame Pentax?	slackercruster	Pentax DSLR Discussion	18	02-13-2012 10:09 AM
The full frame Pentax that never was	dj_saunter	Pentax DSLR Discussion	23	05-06-2011 04:06 AM
Pentax and Full Frame	oppositz	Pentax DSLR Discussion	58	03-18-2011 09:39 AM
Pentax and Full Frame...	Shutter-bug	Photographic Technique	60	11-03-2010 10:03 AM
Pentax A 50/1.2 on Full Frame	aegisphan	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	23	10-28-2010 04:16 PM

07-26-2012, 08:52 PM	#631
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	Regarding the 60-250 not being all that great on a FF: What is the point of that argument? The lens is marketed as a APS-C lens AND there's no Pentax FF DSLR. There's only a couple of reasons to deliberately judge something out of context and they are that you are either an idiot or you enjoy stirring people. I like my 60-250 very much most of the time but will admit it does need stopping down to F7.1 to get razor sharp results. But then again, my Nikon 70-200 VRII doesn't get sharp in the middle until F4 and the edges don't get there until F8 and that lens is very highly rated too. The Nikon cost me 3 grand and I paid 900 for the Pentax.

07-26-2012, 10:59 PM	#633
Alizarine Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,185	As much as I'd like to see all of the good stuff (great bodies, excellent lenses, superb accessories) come out at the same time, reality dictates that Pentax cannot, or at least at this point in time.

07-27-2012, 12:15 AM	#634
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by LamyTax Now step back for a second. All you guys want Pentax FF. Such a camera will likely have a high resolution sensor. Wouldn't you guys want to have glass that's just perfect for that? Yes we do! FF primes will deliver the highest IQ on FF. And they are already there.

07-27-2012, 12:17 AM	#635
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by Alizarine As much as I'd like to see all of the good stuff (great bodies, excellent lenses, superb accessories) come out at the same time, reality dictates that Pentax cannot, or at least at this point in time. The only reason for that would be that it's still too soon after Hoya. Because remember that Pentax Ricoh Imaging is a different company now, with extremely deep pockets, compared to Pentax Hoya.

07-27-2012, 12:19 AM	#636
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	The Canon 70-200/4 was fine on smaller [I meant lo-res] sensors but fell apart when tested on higher res sensors.

07-27-2012, 03:03 PM	#637
24X36NOW Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: CT, USA Posts: 498	Originally posted by bossa The Canon 70-200/4 was fine on smaller [I meant lo-res] sensors but fell apart when tested on higher res sensors. I don't see that at all; check the MTF charts here, and you'll see it actually outperforms (or performs just as well as) both the 70-200/2.8IS AND the 70-200/2.8ISII... DxOMark - Compare lenses

07-27-2012, 04:10 PM	#638
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	Originally posted by 24X36NOW I don't see that at all; check the MTF charts here, and you'll see it actually outperforms (or performs just as well as) both the 70-200/2.8IS AND the 70-200/2.8ISII... DxOMark - Compare lenses Actually you are right. I had looked at that lens tested on various sensor sizes about a year ago at Photozone. My experiences have taught me a few more things over these past 12 months so I take your point.

07-27-2012, 05:11 PM	#639
hermitlun New Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 9	My hope to get Pentax FF late this year!

07-27-2012, 06:11 PM	#640
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	I think that might be a bit too aggressive. I think that Pentax might announce something at Photokina but at best it will be early next year. An october release (for christmas) would be great but I think it's a bit much to expect that of a project that was only kicked off in October or so of last year.

07-27-2012, 09:20 PM	#641
Alizarine Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,185	Maybe not even an official announcement- a teaser, maybe. Just so to maintain their "aura of mystery" or something like that

07-28-2012, 10:00 AM	#642
Emacs Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Moscow Posts: 1,223	In St.Petersburg russian pentax distributor (Pentar) representative told K-1 with 36x24 sensor will be announced in march 2013

07-28-2012, 10:51 AM	#643
Raffwal Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The North Posts: 879	Originally posted by Emacs In St.Petersburg russian pentax distributor (Pentar) representative told K-1 with 36x24 sensor will be announced in march 2013 If that is true, in Pentax years that means a premature announcement in March 2013, a second announcement in September 2013 and availability in 2015?

07-28-2012, 07:25 PM - 1 Like	#645
Fontan Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: 5th floor Posts: 1,610	Originally posted by Raffwal If that is true, in Pentax years that means a premature announcement in March 2013, a second announcement in September 2013 and availability in 2015? You know, there can be several "updates" with APS-C cams until FF comes out, and it just may be cheaper to buy D800 and few lenses and be done with it right this moment. I mean we only live once. What if we die before Pentax FF comes out? That ain't cool. I want FF now! I want my photos to get that shallow depth of field right this minute. How can I possibly deprive my fans of such shallowness? What about all the weddings being shot with Pentax, without being shallow in their depth of conscious (i meant field)? I can't do that. It's wrong. It's immoral.