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08-02-2012, 08:49 AM   #751
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QuoteOriginally posted by LamyTax Quote
It's hard to cram more pixels on APS-C efficiently, FF still has some space left.
Right now, Pentax needs one thing: affordable entry level. Around 350$ street price including a kit.
This market sector is huge and will certainly be APS-C for quite some time.
I agere that an entry model is even more urgent than FF. But they need a new 645d too!

08-02-2012, 08:53 AM   #752
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I agere that an entry model is even more urgent than FF. But they need a new 645d too!
the new entry will come at the photokina i bet.

right now they just wait for the last K-r and K5 to be sold to show up something really new (albeit the K30 seems a super good move from Pentax, like the K5 was.)
08-02-2012, 09:04 AM   #753
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QuoteOriginally posted by LamyTax Quote
It's hard to cram more pixels on APS-C efficiently, FF still has some space left.
Right now, Pentax needs one thing: affordable entry level. Around 350$ street price including a kit.
This market sector is huge and will certainly be APS-C for quite some time.
they don't need the 350 street price item, those are invariably older models that the big guys did an overrun on to sell off cheap (read after all costs are paid) down the line. For pentax that would have meant running a large number of KX a few years back, you don't put a new model into production targeting that level.
They do need a 499-599 model though - if they produce it in sufficient qty it can be the $350 model in 18 months but i don't think they have the capacity right now to do that
08-02-2012, 09:08 AM   #754
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I agere that an entry model is even more urgent than FF. But they need a new 645d too!
As I've said earlier, I expect a new 645D for photokina and a lowered price for the current one. They need the latter to battle the current FF high end, the new one is to hedge against anything Leica has in store. It's about time, too. The 645D is old by now, and other MF-bodies have become more affordable.

I'm not sure if they'll release a new mirrorless though. It'd make sense -- but do they have a concept for that one!? Wouldn't it make more sense to release a new mirrorless later, when it gets more exposure amidst all the photokina news?

And I'm quite certain that they'll push the limits of APS-C as a test for a FF body. While they still need a K5 successor (and I bet on a swivel screen for that).
So that's at least four cameras for photokina.

QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
they don't need the 350 street price item, those are invariably older models that the big guys did an overrun on to sell off cheap (read after all costs are paid) down the line. For pentax that would have meant running a large number of KX a few years back, you don't put a new model into production targeting that level.
They do need a 499-599 model though - if they produce it in sufficient qty it can be the $350 model in 18 months but i don't think they have the capacity right now to do that
Go visit any large camera store and listen in to what people ask for. A lot of them want a DSLR in that price range. They put on a superzoom or kit lens and are happy with it, until they buy their next one in two years or so. The reason for that is simply, the quality is a lot better than what compacts deliver, they look more pro, but they're not much more expensive than what you pay for the better compacts.
Not a whole lot of people actually buy used cameras.

08-02-2012, 09:08 AM   #755
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
the new entry will come at the photokina i bet.

right now they just wait for the last K-r and K5 to be sold to show up something really new (albeit the K30 seems a super good move from Pentax, like the K5 was.)
Putting on my Karnac hat


almost certainly Photokina will see it (k300?) and the K5 successor (K3) the one thing up in the air is the FF - though i bet it is previewed in prototype with a spring target and the lens roadmap is amended a bit
a Q2 looks likely as well since there are new lenses roadmapped for it
I bet there is some interesting Ricoh kit as well (K mountor perhaps maybe GXR body v2, GRDV in apsc or m4/3)
probably the final version of the DA560 will appear, maybe a couple more lenses
and 2 new flashes
08-02-2012, 09:18 AM   #756
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QuoteOriginally posted by builttospill Quote
Even if Pentax does announce a FF shortly I doubt the production has been rushed. Was the 645D rushed? Pentax has been working on development of a FF (MZ-D...K-1) a lot longer than the 645D. I agree with you though if they don't adequately test this camera it could make a lot of people upset, although the reports show the K-5 was a success, even with all the bugs. So I'll still be looking forward to buying the K-1, K2-D or LX-D or whatever they call it.
Right now, with the transition and all the more urgent gaps to fill, I doubt they even have the capacity to do that. Under Hoya, R&D was hard to do. Ricoh, on the other hand, has enlarged Pentax's capacity.

Just consider this: they urgently need the entry level covered. Same urgency for digital MF. And not having a new K5 successor ready won't work either.
So that's three bodies to deal with. Plus a new AF -- I mean, really, do you expect SAFOX IXi+ for a K5 successor!?
Without any recent experience in digital FF, it's imho near impossible to make on for photokina. Not with the transition period.
What they certainly can do is a new APS-C high end. The major changes for that one would be in electronics and not the package. That's doable.
08-02-2012, 10:49 AM   #757
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QuoteOriginally posted by LamyTax Quote
Right now, with the transition and all the more urgent gaps to fill, I doubt they even have the capacity to do that. Under Hoya, R&D was hard to do. Ricoh, on the other hand, has enlarged Pentax's capacity.

Just consider this: they urgently need the entry level covered. Same urgency for digital MF. And not having a new K5 successor ready won't work either.
So that's three bodies to deal with. Plus a new AF -- I mean, really, do you expect SAFOX IXi+ for a K5 successor!?
Without any recent experience in digital FF, it's imho near impossible to make on for photokina. Not with the transition period.
What they certainly can do is a new APS-C high end. The major changes for that one would be in electronics and not the package. That's doable.
I think sensor development and availability is a bigger hurdle than R&D capacity regarding FF, as well as for an updated 645D.

Yes, it would be silly to not have an entry-level model ready soon. But I wouldn't be surprised at all to see K-5's successor with the same AF system as the K-30, we are talking about Pentax AF here, right?

I'd also be surprised if they don't have a new body for K-5's replacement. While they've had some transitions and other things slowing progress down, the K-30's body shows what they are capable of, even if it is a polarizing design (I'm in the camp that likes the look). Also Pentax digital history for the last few models show a new body is due. It's possible, especially when I'm not sure of their capacities, but I would expect their parent company has added staff and resources to make the company more competitive.
08-02-2012, 12:00 PM   #758
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QuoteOriginally posted by builttospill Quote
I think sensor development and availability is a bigger hurdle than R&D capacity regarding FF, as well as for an updated 645D.
When's the last time Pentax did the development inhouse?

QuoteQuote:
But I wouldn't be surprised at all to see K-5's successor with the same AF system as the K-30, we are talking about Pentax AF here, right?
Nah. Improving the AF to what Canon had a few years ago isn't too hard. I'd say that the AF has been the main issue in R&D lately, simply because it's where Pentax lacks the most compared to the competition.

08-02-2012, 12:19 PM - 1 Like   #759
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QuoteOriginally posted by LamyTax Quote
Nah. Improving the AF to what Canon had a few years ago isn't too hard. I'd say that the AF has been the main issue in R&D lately, simply because it's where Pentax lacks the most compared to the competition.
Actually Pentax's AF seems downright sophisticated compared to how far behind the times they are with flash.
08-02-2012, 12:26 PM   #760
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QuoteOriginally posted by maxfield_photo Quote
Actually Pentax's AF seems downright sophisticated compared to how far behind the times they are with flash.
the rumour is new flashes at Photokina though so maybe just maybe that will improve
08-02-2012, 12:29 PM   #761
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QuoteOriginally posted by LamyTax Quote
When's the last time Pentax did the development inhouse?
You should already know I wasn't referring to Pentax developing the sensor. I was pointing to how people here in this forum have speculated on whether Nikon and Sony have a deal preventing Pentax from obtaining the newest FF sensor until after Nikon had their field day with it. Also, many have wondered what will happen to the distribution of the 645D sensor after Kodak's demise. To me, these seem like a bigger challenge than producing a FF body.
08-02-2012, 12:52 PM   #762
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QuoteOriginally posted by builttospill Quote
You should already know I wasn't referring to Pentax developing the sensor. I was pointing to how people here in this forum have speculated on whether Nikon and Sony have a deal preventing Pentax from obtaining the newest FF sensor until after Nikon had their field day with it. Also, many have wondered what will happen to the distribution of the 645D sensor after Kodak's demise. To me, these seem like a bigger challenge than producing a FF body.
the 645D sensor division was sold off before the demise, they are still in business. a new sensor is due though no mater what
08-02-2012, 01:39 PM   #763
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Yep Eddie, I'm curious to see how Pentax plays this one. With the sensor division sold, you now have two companies sorting through a transition-Pentax and Truesense. While the current sensor has been great, I agree with you a new sensor is needed. I hope it's not a crop, but that's part of why I'm curious to see what they come up with.
08-02-2012, 04:03 PM   #764
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
Speaking only for myself, I'm not exactly against a Pentax FF, but I think that improved predictive (and static!) AF is more important, along with improved flash, better QA on bodies especially, and improved SDM. Not to mention a decent WA prime that is WR, a new AF TC, a longer (180mm would be ideal) macro, etc etc.

NaCl(not against FF but R&D money could be better spent elsewhere)H2O
When reading buying guide threads on non brand specific forums, the lack of upgrade path to FF is often brougth up as a con for the Pentax system. Many entry level CaNikons are sold because of the complete camera line even if the upgrade path never will be used.

Regarding AF, and this i pure speculation, if a new AF module is in the works (new as in more AF-points, etc.) Pentax may develop it for FF.
08-02-2012, 05:04 PM   #765
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Why would they want to introduce anything more "entry level" than the K30? At it's current price point it IS the entry level DSLR in the Pentax lineup.

All they need now is a K5 replacement and the K3 FF.

If you want anything less than a K30 get a K-01 or a point and shoot.
A four model range is plenty (K-01, K30, K3, 645D).
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