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08-27-2012, 10:30 AM   #811
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The current FF cameras don't threaten the 645D since they are quite different markets. One could argue that even Pentax's own K-5 makes the 645D obsolete due to its significantly superior high ISO performance with a similar AF mechanism. This too would neglect the other important virtues of the MF system.

08-27-2012, 10:48 AM   #812
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisJowett Quote
Call me crazy, but I see the future of any K-3 as replacing the 645D.

Pentax already have a medium format DSLR, so why is a full-frame 35mm DSLR impossible?

We’ve got to the point where a full-frame DSLR could carry a 40mp sensor;the 36mp sensor in the Nikon D800E outperforms the sensor in the Pentax 645D inmost regards and is only a tad short on actual pixels.

I would totally drool (still couldn’t actually afford) a scaled down 645Dwith a KAF mount (not crippled) capable of taking 645 lenses, or even 6x7 orM42 lenses, with an adapter and D lenses with software. Full mechanical controlof every Pentax or K-mount lens ever made.

Wouldn’t that be the best of all worlds?

I’d call it the K-LX and include interchangeable viewfinders (optical, EVF,waist-level) and even an upgradeable sensor for longevity.

The non-crippled KAF mount is critical. Pentax will remain the poor cousinon 3rd party support, with certain premium lens vendors providing a mechanicalK-mount only and no reason for us to expect that to ever change. The samevendors will continue to provide a full electronic EOS mount for Canon due tosheer volume that Pentax will never approach, so we can whine or hope for Pentaxto appreciate reality and make the bodies compatible.

I personally love a boxy body designs like 645D, Hasselblad and my formerlove, the Rollei 3003. A big chunky RHS grip like on the 645D makes it a moreconventional DSLR design, but different enough to straddle the pro and semi-promarkets.

I may be crazy, but I’d actually sell a car to buy one of those.
I just don't see Pentax ditching the 645D line up. It can't sell a whole lot of bodies, but each one has to make a good deal of profit. Other than the sensor, basically the camera is spec-ed less than full frame and sells for twice (minimum) as much. Lenses are even pricier. It's just easy money in a fairly non-competitive market.
08-27-2012, 11:24 AM   #813
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QuoteOriginally posted by zswjy Quote
there are to many rumors about pentax FF, I have a Fa 24-90mm lens, and i am not sure it's a good time to sell it.
I don't think there are any Pentax FF rumors; just FF wishes. I suspect Pentax will try to be an excellent if not the best provider of APS DSLR's. To excel in both APS, FF, 645 and the Q format will be difficult with Pentax marketshare. Pentax could spread themselves too thinly. I don't think there are any firm Pentax FF plans....
08-27-2012, 11:31 AM   #814
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We (should) know Pentax will not ditch the 645D, since they expanded the 645D lens roadmap not long ago.

08-27-2012, 11:32 AM   #815
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
I don't think there are any Pentax FF rumors; just FF wishes. I suspect Pentax will try to be an excellent if not the best provider of APS DSLR's. To excel in both APS, FF, 645 and the Q format will be difficult with Pentax marketshare. Pentax could spread themselves too thinly. I don't think there are any firm Pentax FF plans....
Isn't the question about Ricoh, not Pentax? I'm sure there have been Pentax full frame plans in the back rooms ever since the MZ-D was a possibility, but they just were never green lighted. There is no doubt, but that Ricoh has allowed Pentax to go forward with an awful lot of things that Hoya would never allow to go forward. I just don't have a good feel for what Ricoh is going to allow and what their tolerance for risk is.
08-27-2012, 11:45 AM   #816
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Isn't the question about Ricoh, not Pentax? I'm sure there have been Pentax full frame plans in the back rooms ever since the MZ-D was a possibility, but they just were never green lighted. There is no doubt, but that Ricoh has allowed Pentax to go forward with an awful lot of things that Hoya would never allow to go forward. I just don't have a good feel for what Ricoh is going to allow and what their tolerance for risk is.

I'm pretty sure that Pentax have had FF prototypes continuously, but I suspect that Pentax have decided on APS only for K-mount for the time being. I cannot see how they can be competetive in all segments if they marked an FF camera and lenses. That means four lens lines. The fact that Pentax have not adopted an FF lens naming policy (meaning that the FF customer have no way of knowing which lens is FF compatible except from trial and error) and that they have adopted the cropped nomenclature for 645 lens(es) strongly suggest that Pentax see both high-end APS (24mp K-3(?) to come) and cropped 645 as their FF answer...but I might be wrong...
08-27-2012, 11:56 AM   #817
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
I'm pretty sure that Pentax have had FF prototypes continuously, but I suspect that Pentax have decided on APS only for K-mount for the time being. I cannot see how they can be competetive in all segments if they marked an FF camera and lenses. That means four lens lines. The fact that Pentax have not adopted an FF lens naming policy (meaning that the FF customer have no way of knowing which lens is FF compatible except from trial and error) and that they have adopted the cropped nomenclature for 645 lens(es) strongly suggest that Pentax see both high-end APS (24mp K-3(?) to come) and cropped 645 as their FF answer...but I might be wrong...
I don't read a whole lot into the tea leaves at this point. I really think that Ricoh has been evaluating things up till now and has been taking stock of how they will invest in Pentax and where to go forward. There is really little point in looking at history under Hoya to tell us how Pentax will move forward, as Hoya acted primarily as a care-taker, doing just enough to keep the brand alive, but not willing to invest in anything risky.

Not saying that Pentax is releasing a full frame (my guess would be an announcement with a release in spring of 2013), but I just don't think we can look at past history to tell how Ricoh is going to move forward. If they really want to challenge Canon, then they will green light full frame, even if it means a high initial investment to get the line up to speed.
08-27-2012, 11:58 AM   #818
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
I don't think there are any Pentax FF rumors; just FF wishes. I suspect Pentax will try to be an excellent if not the best provider of APS DSLR's. To excel in both APS, FF, 645 and the Q format will be difficult with Pentax marketshare. Pentax could spread themselves too thinly. I don't think there are any firm Pentax FF plans....
Isn't the question about Ricoh, not Pentax? I'm sure there have been Pentax full frame plans in the back rooms ever since the MZ-D was a possibility, but they just were never green lighted. There is no doubt, but that Ricoh has allowed Pentax to go forward with an awful lot of things that Hoya would never allow to go forward. I just don't have a good feel for what Ricoh is going to allow and what their tolerance for risk is.
In my view not entering the full frame market is a much riskier proposition for a DSLR maker than going ahead and taking the plunge into it. Look at all the moans and groans here on the forum simply because Pentax doesn't have a full frame camera. Look at the virtual absence of Pentax in the pro field, not unlikely due at least in part to there not being an FF option. Look at the ever dwindling amount of third party support for Pentax, again not unlikely due to the fact that they don't have an FF body. Look at the industry's, and individual photographer's, general impression of Pentax that is also in part molded by the lack of a Pentax FF lineup. All of that could potentially be turned around 180 degrees with the rather simple addition of a Pentax full frame camera and lens lineup. Pentax could garner all kinds of favorable attention, almost overnight too, from just the addition of a single FF camera. Follow that up with a second FF body and some new FF lenses, and Pentax would very likely once again be considered a serious camera maker by both the industry at large and by photographers of all ilk. Being APS-C only has more or less worked for Pentax so far, but it hasn't been without its toll. The price of being APS-C only is, in my approximation, increasing every year that goes by. And medium format simply isn't a substitute for 135 full frame.

08-27-2012, 12:10 PM   #819
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There have been whisperings on the street here and from time to time on the Forum that Ricoh intends to make a full-on professional camera with professional support for release in 2013. I've always assumed that meant a FF camera - but what if they continue to drive the small form factor, wring more out of the sensor than anyone else and offer a full-on professional APSc camera?

That would actually be very Pentax, wouldn't it? Offer a digital MX instead of a digital LX?

Last edited by monochrome; 08-28-2012 at 12:23 PM.
08-27-2012, 12:21 PM   #820
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
There have been whisperings on the street here and from time to time on the Forum that Ricoh intends to make a full-on professional camera with professional support for release in 2013. I've always assumed that meant a FF camera - but what if they continue to drive the small form factor, wring more out of the sensor that anyone else and offer a full-on professional APSc camera? That would actually be very Pentax, wouldn't it? Offer a digital MX instead of a digital LX?
I'd like to see both, a pro-speced APS-C and an FF. I do believe that there is room for a pro-level APSC body. I would want to use that camera and feel that the K-5 is practically that. But I also feel that the photogs who want a pro-level APSC will, if not immediately then in time, also want a FF camera but they won't really want to manage two systems. It would be great for Pentax to have a combo similar to what you see a lot of Canon and Nikon users with: a 5DmkII and 7D, a D700 and D300s.

Edit: The matter of pro-level APS-C only lenses is a bit more questionable. I think that having the majority of the best lenses in the catalog be FF compatible would be the way to go. The DA Limiteds though are indeed excellent, and their quality as APS-C only lenses is really quite remarkable and unique to Pentax. The DA* f/2.8 zooms would have made a pretty strong case for pro-grade APS-C lenses were it not for all the complaints about slow focusing and busted SDM.

Last edited by TomTextura; 08-27-2012 at 12:34 PM.
08-27-2012, 01:19 PM   #821
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
There have been whisperings on the street here and from time to time on the Forum that Ricoh intends to make a full-on professional camera with professional support for release in 2013. I've always assumed that meant a FF camera - but what if they continue to drive the small form factor, wring more out of the sensor that anyone else and offer a full-on professional APSc camera?

That would actually be very Pentax, wouldn't it? Offer a digital MX instead of a digital LX?
That would be very Pentax indeed. Disappointing their user-base has become a bit of a tradition for them now.
08-27-2012, 01:23 PM   #822
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Pentax doesn't have the autofocus capability req'd for a 'pro' who wants APS-C.
08-27-2012, 02:05 PM   #823
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Pentax doesn't (yet) have the autofocus capability req'd for a 'pro' who wants APS-C.
Correction in red is mine
08-27-2012, 02:17 PM   #824
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Pentax doesn't have the autofocus capability req'd for a 'pro' who wants APS-C.
I assume that by 'pro' here we are talking basically sports, and possibly journalists (of certain types) and nature. I would think these are the most dependent upon the AF system.
08-27-2012, 02:18 PM   #825
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisJowett Quote
Call me crazy, but I see the future of any K-3 as replacing the 645D.
...
We’ve got to the point where a full-frame DSLR could carry a 40mp sensor;the 36mp sensor in the Nikon D800E outperforms the sensor in the Pentax 645D inmost regards and is only a tad short on actual pixels.
...
For this statement, yes, you sound a bit crazy : the difference btw 645D sensor and 35mm is roughly the same as btw 35mm and APS-C regarding size.
One of the actual and measurable consequence besides bokeh and global light capability, is that you get at best in file resolution at lower than f/8 with D800, compared to lower than f/13 with 645D.
This said, the commercial birth-day of a CMOS 33x44mm sensor has not happened, yet.
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