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08-27-2012, 02:39 PM   #826
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Full Frame Speculation

I just can't see how Pentax cannot be impacted by the number of Pentaxians who have recently moved onto other manufacturers for the sole reason of purchasing a full frame body.

I belong to a camera club with about 200 members and during the past 4 months at least 10 of them (Nikon and Canon users) have moved to full frame since the D800 and then new Canon's were released. Clearly this shift has been noticed by all camera manufacturers including Ricoh/Pentax. With the upcoming release of the supposed D600 I predict the shift will be a stampede within the Nikon ranks and if Ricoh Pentax doesn't recognize this and adapt, announcements of new APSC bodies will hardly be noticed by the photography community.

08-27-2012, 02:47 PM   #827
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I really don't think we will get a FF K-mount camera at Photokina. Just too many things to do and not enough time. Pentax seems to have the capability to release a K-mount camera ever three months. At least this is the trend with the K-01 and the K30. I am guessing a K-5 replacement and an budget K300 are what we will see at Photokina . Then at CP+ we might see two pro-level cameras. One being a aps-c and the train FF model. Think like Nikon did with the D300 and D700.

Dave
08-27-2012, 05:13 PM - 2 Likes   #828
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobell69 Quote
I just can't see how Pentax cannot be impacted by the number of Pentaxians who have recently m oved onto other manufacturers for the sole reason of purchasing a full frame body.

I belong to a camera club with about 200 members and during the past 4 months at least 10 of them (Nikon and Canon users) have moved to full frame since the D800 and then new Canon's were released. Clearly this shift has been noticed by all camera manufacturers including Ricoh/Pentax. With the upcoming release of the supposed D600 I predict the shift will be a stampede within the Nikon ranks and if Ricoh Pentax doesn't recognize this and adapt, announcements of new APSC bodies will hardly be noticed by the photography community.
Yeah...but...but, there is a "stampede" anytime there is a good new camera announced, e.g. K5, Fuji Xpro1, Nex, Sony RX100, K30, etc. Some observations:

a. We are a consumer driven world in many areas. we lust after the next new thing thats promised to make us happy, until the next new thing comes along.

b. Sure, i agree that lower cost FF cameras will make some sort of impact on the photography world, but we won't know the extent of that for 3 years minimum.

c. APS sensors will still be around in cameras 5 years from now, i can't recall any size sensors that aren't available any more, except perhaps those that were made by Kodak.

d. In the 45 person camera club i attend, one member bought a D4 and a second bought a D800. On the other hand a third member with a Sony A900FF, bought a Nex5n, then Nex7, and now seems happy with a Sony RX100 (until the next new thing comes along :lol - he's a popular member because he brings all his new cameras and the rest of us get to check them out without going to a store)

e. I continue to see the occasional new PF member who is looking for smaller dslr and buying Pentax. I occasionally see Marketplace listings for those Pentaxians who are selling out to go smaller or to go larger. Not sure which group is larger. Pentax will either go FF or not - i won't be getting that excited about it either way as my current K5 will continue to work just fine for a period of time.
08-27-2012, 05:13 PM   #829
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Pentax doesn't have the autofocus capability req'd for a 'pro' who wants APS-C.
I'm more worried about the pro network and support Pentax is missing than it's AF. If Pentax were to release anything "pro" they have a long way to go in establishing support for professionals. IMO this will take a lot more time than fixing and improving poor AF.

08-27-2012, 05:24 PM   #830
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QuoteOriginally posted by builttospill Quote
I'm more worried about the pro network and support Pentax is missing than it's AF. If Pentax were to release anything "pro" they have a long way to go in establishing support for professionals. IMO this will take a lot more time than fixing and improving poor AF.
Years ago, or make that decades, Herbert Keppler said exactly that in Modern Photography. His point was that pros were using Nikon not because it was better, but because of the vast support network/services, including replacement of equipment while waiting for repairs.
08-27-2012, 05:45 PM   #831
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Good point... But isn't that like saying a 36mp APSC sensor would be just as good as a 36mp FF sensor? The 36mp of the D800 may outperform the 645D, but it still hasn't got the same format with it's larger format advantages.
I'm not convinced there are any advantages anymore. The primary advantage was IQ for very large images. The (physical) size of the sensor is irrelevant if the (megapixel) size of the file is the same. The only outstanding issue is lens size, and there are a lot more legacy 35mm Pentax lenses out there than 645, 67 or 6X7.

Sensors will continue to improve. Nikon and Olympus have bet their houses on smaller sensors rapidly improving to APSC quality, and I think they're right.

That leaves a niche for larger than APSC sensors for the pro and semi-pro markets. Pentax may very well make another 645D if someone (Pentax don't make sensors) make another sensor that big, but I think a 35mm sensor in a pro/semi-pro Pentax is more likely and more marketable.
08-27-2012, 05:52 PM   #832
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QuoteOriginally posted by builttospill Quote
I'm more worried about the pro network and support Pentax is missing than it's AF. If Pentax were to release anything "pro" they have a long way to go in establishing support for professionals. IMO this will take a lot more time than fixing and improving poor AF.
Well, many/most pro photographers have their own backups as their first line of defense. A support network would be nice but I don't think it'd be absolutely necessary, certainly not at the outset. The hardware and the performance has to be their first, in my opinion, then an improved and expanded service network can follow.
08-27-2012, 05:54 PM   #833
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Yeah...but...but, there is a "stampede" anytime there is a good new camera announced, e.g. K5, Fuji Xpro1, Nex, Sony RX100, K30, etc. Some observations:

a. We are a consumer driven world in many areas. we lust after the next new thing thats promised to make us happy, until the next new thing comes along.

b. Sure, i agree that lower cost FF cameras will make some sort of impact on the photography world, but we won't know the extent of that for 3 years minimum.

c. APS sensors will still be around in cameras 5 years from now, i can't recall any size sensors that aren't available any more, except perhaps those that were made by Kodak.

d. In the 45 person camera club i attend, one member bought a D4 and a second bought a D800. On the other hand a third member with a Sony A900FF, bought a Nex5n, then Nex7, and now seems happy with a Sony RX100 (until the next new thing comes along :lol - he's a popular member because he brings all his new cameras and the rest of us get to check them out without going to a store)

e. I continue to see the occasional new PF member who is looking for smaller dslr and buying Pentax. I occasionally see Marketplace listings for those Pentaxians who are selling out to go smaller or to go larger. Not sure which group is larger. Pentax will either go FF or not - i won't be getting that excited about it either way as my current K5 will continue to work just fine for a period of time.

Pentax has an opportunity to be positioned as a supporter oflegacy lenses. Pentaxians are a loyal breed and will stick with the brand ifpossible. My lenses are worth an awful lot more than all my bodies. Prioritising support of 35mm K-mount lenses can only help the Pentax brand.


08-27-2012, 06:03 PM   #834
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QuoteOriginally posted by builttospill Quote
I'm more worried about the pro network and support Pentax is missing than it's AF. If Pentax were to release anything "pro" they have a long way to go in establishing support for professionals. IMO this will take a lot more time than fixing and improving poor AF.
But isn't there some kind of support for pros using a 645D currently ?

Also, they could ask Marc Newson to design the new FF camera, thus it could be marketed for camera enthusiasts/hipsters rather than pros
08-27-2012, 06:06 PM   #835
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomTextura Quote
Well, many/most pro photographers have their own backups as their first line of defense. A support network would be nice but I don't think it'd be absolutely necessary, certainly not at the outset. The hardware and the performance has to be their first, in my opinion, then an improved and expanded service network can follow.
Well, perhaps. Backups are the first line of defense. But if the primary body is away for repair, I'd have no backup to take to the shoot. That's not professional ....
08-27-2012, 06:14 PM   #836
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I'm planning to look at the whole package. If the K-5 replacement is APS-C or FF, I still need quality lenses without SDM issues, teleconverters, flashes, etc.
What they show at Photokina will help me decide which system I'll be shooting next year.

I do have a preference for a full frame camera with crop modes so I can shoot either FF or APS-C. I'd prefer the 24 MP count since I believe the crop mode will be 16 MP, K-5 perfomance equivalent (did I do my math correctly?). The best of both worlds and I can grow into the full frame lens roadmap.

I do have a preference for the lens to not use SDM. I'm hoping for a new generation of lenses using ring motor, DC, screw drive or SDM II. It needs to be reliable and robust to grow the brand. I expect the better technology in the more expensive work horse lenses.

Waiting patiently for Photokina
08-27-2012, 06:23 PM   #837
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QuoteOriginally posted by NickLarsson Quote
Also, they could ask Marc Newson to design the new FF camera, thus it could be marketed for camera enthusiasts/hipsters rather than pros


I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.
08-27-2012, 06:56 PM   #838
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QuoteOriginally posted by 7samurai Quote
I'm planning to look at the whole package. If the K-5 replacement is APS-C or FF, I still need quality lenses without SDM issues, teleconverters, flashes, etc.
What they show at Photokina will help me decide which system I'll be shooting next year.

I do have a preference for a full frame camera with crop modes so I can shoot either FF or APS-C. I'd prefer the 24 MP count since I believe the crop mode will be 16 MP, K-5 perfomance equivalent (did I do my math correctly?). The best of both worlds and I can grow into the full frame lens roadmap.

I do have a preference for the lens to not use SDM. I'm hoping for a new generation of lenses using ring motor, DC, screw drive or SDM II. It needs to be reliable and robust to grow the brand. I expect the better technology in the more expensive work horse lenses.

Waiting patiently for Photokina
I thought the crop mode on the D800 is 16mp...
08-27-2012, 07:21 PM   #839
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QuoteOriginally posted by NickLarsson Quote
Also, they could ask Marc Newson to design the new FF camera, thus it could be marketed for camera enthusiasts
Not really.
08-27-2012, 07:50 PM   #840
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
Well, perhaps. Backups are the first line of defense. But if the primary body is away for repair, I'd have no backup to take to the shoot. That's not professional ....
If that was the case I would either rent/buy another body. It would just depend on how long I thought the body would be out. Yeah, it would be expensive, but I always keep a reserve for emergencies. Last year I had to buy a computer when mine was going to be out for service for a minimum of two weeks.

Plus, canikon may offer professional services, but they are far from free. I know many pro wedding shooters who just figure the couple of hundreds they save eventually pays for that emergency body.
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