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08-28-2012, 10:30 AM - 1 Like   #886
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
At this price, I see Pentaxians drain out quickly
... maybe with the exception of those "few" who are just happy with their equipment and try to improve as photographers instead of beeing obsessed by the latest and greatest gear all the time.

Don't take the couple of people participating in threats like this for the majority of Pentax users.

08-28-2012, 10:35 AM   #887
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QuoteOriginally posted by volley Quote
... maybe with the exception of those "few" who are just happy with their equipment and try to improve as photographers instead of beeing obsessed by the latest and greatest gear all the time.

Don't take the couple of people participating in threats like this for the majority of Pentax users.
Please don't follow those threats. I'll be a Pentaxian until I die. I don't have any reason to change, I work within the limitations of my gear. Besides.. Nikon and Canon require too much tinkering in PP To get the colors and contrast Pentax gives you. I had a D800 for a day, I liked it sure, but it made me cherish my K5 even more!
08-28-2012, 10:35 AM   #888
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
The only professional nature photographer who specificially mention Pentax AF
So what you're saying here is that there's one professional nature photographer who shoots Pentax.
08-28-2012, 10:37 AM - 1 Like   #889
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Funny. The 'pros' who want APS-C aren't wedding photographers. With the D800 it's a moot point, though, there's really nobody who should want APS-C.
Actually, nearly all of the pros in my area shoot with APS-C. When you have to expense out every new purchase, you are a lot more careful with new glass and body purchases and are less likely to jump on the up-grade band wagon. Most of the pros in my rural area are using cameras that are a generation old at the minimum -- Canon 50Ds or Nikon D300s. The reality is that clients can't tell the difference between formats for the most part. My wife shoots professionally, portraiture and weddings, with two K5s and she has never had anyone complain to her that the photos had "too much depth of field" or that they would have been better had she used a full frame camera.

I understand the desire for full frame, I just think that it is something appeals more to people who shoot as a hobby and have extra money in their pockets than to professional photographers.

08-28-2012, 10:47 AM   #890
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Funny. I watch a pro almost every week (long story) shoot a wedding. I recall one APS-C in the past year or so. This is weddings near San Jose, CA at a cheaper facility.
08-28-2012, 10:49 AM   #891
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomTextura Quote
I'm skeptical about how many photographers are going to want to spend top dollar to get all the highest grade gear possible for APS-C just to end up being a hop and a skip away investment-wise from having a full frame set up but not have the option available to them. Pentax does have a great set of lenses with the DA Limited primes. Zooms are something of a different matter. And other than being able to reach truly wide angle focal lengths, FF lenses work plenty well on APS-C..
The mistake here is the assumption that most people actually want FF. The majority could care less about the exact size of the sensor but is concerned with price and the output of the camera. The majority of digital shooters are used to smaller formats and are happy with it. The idea of FF as a goal for everyone is a false one and for many a larger sensor is a drawback. Better sensors make the case for smaller ones stronger.
08-28-2012, 10:53 AM   #892
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
So what you're saying here is that there's one professional nature photographer who shoots Pentax.
I'm saying AF is good enough for the most demanding professional needs.
By all means, make AF as fast and accurate as possible, but I have yet to encounter a situation when it was the AF that failed and not me...
08-28-2012, 10:59 AM   #893
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Actually, nearly all of the pros in my area shoot with APS-C. When you have to expense out every new purchase, you are a lot more careful with new glass and body purchases and are less likely to jump on the up-grade band wagon. Most of the pros in my rural area are using cameras that are a generation old at the minimum -- Canon 50Ds or Nikon D300s. The reality is that clients can't tell the difference between formats for the most part. My wife shoots professionally, portraiture and weddings, with two K5s and she has never had anyone complain to her that the photos had "too much depth of field" or that they would have been better had she used a full frame camera.

I understand the desire for full frame, I just think that it is something appeals more to people who shoot as a hobby and have extra money in their pockets than to professional photographers.
Exactly the same as a friend of mine who has his own fine-art gallery and shoots weddings on the sides says. He is also the only pro I've met with an FF camera incidentally bought used. When his gallery burned down last year (with his camera gear) the first thing he bought was a Canon 7D. He bought a 5DIII second hand. He says no client can tell whats shot with what (I can't either. Maybe if the same image were displayed side by side megalarge). He like the FF due to the bigger finder. The 7D is the main tool.

08-28-2012, 11:23 AM   #894
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
The only professional nature photographer who specificially mention Pentax AF (SAFOX V) says it gives just as many keepers as his Canon 1-series camera. This is in print in a published book with photos of dancing Sifakas something that is much harder to shoot than weddings. Those who whine about AF are usually amateurs to make an excuse to buy a new toy. Pros manage to make AF work regardless of camera. As a nature photographer I have never encountered a situation where AF isn't fast enough.
People always want better. I remember trying to track moving subjects with manual focus. I remember when I loved the Canon eos 3 which had the eye controled focus. It focused where your eye was looking in the viewfinder, well 75% of the time. I wish Canon had continued to develop that technology.

As far as Pentax AF goes it isn't too bad. It works fine for my wildlife images 95% of the time even on the 645D. The only time it becomes a hindrance is in tracking AF; but, I think that is more precision/software than slow AF speed. Granted I don't use SDM lenses too much; primarily the screw driven 645 lenses and my k mount FA* 300mm 2.8 with the focus limit switch... But the tracking AF can be made up for relativly easy by bumping ISO and shooting smaller aperture. Higher ISO is better than no image.

I want something very similar to the K5 (aps-c) still and they had better not change to a new battery on me. I am not likely to buy into a FF from any make for a couple more years as I have the 645D. Aps-c and the 645D make a very nice pair. FF is just pointless. When I need super telephoto I have the K5. When I want to capture all the detail I have the 645D. Perfect combo.

Last edited by atlnq9; 08-28-2012 at 11:29 AM.
08-28-2012, 12:01 PM   #895
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QuoteOriginally posted by atlnq9 Quote
People always want better. I remember trying to track moving subjects with manual focus. I remember when I loved the Canon eos 3 which had the eye controled focus. It focused where your eye was looking in the viewfinder, well 75% of the time. I wish Canon had continued to develop that technology.

As far as Pentax AF goes it isn't too bad. It works fine for my wildlife images 95% of the time even on the 645D. The only time it becomes a hindrance is in tracking AF; but, I think that is more precision/software than slow AF speed. Granted I don't use SDM lenses too much; primarily the screw driven 645 lenses and my k mount FA* 300mm 2.8 with the focus limit switch... But the tracking AF can be made up for relativly easy by bumping ISO and shooting smaller aperture. Higher ISO is better than no image.

I want something very similar to the K5 (aps-c) still and they had better not change to a new battery on me. I am not likely to buy into a FF from any make for a couple more years as I have the 645D. Aps-c and the 645D make a very nice pair. FF is just pointless. When I need super telephoto I have the K5. When I want to capture all the detail I have the 645D. Perfect combo.
I agree that APS + MF Digital is a perfect combo. I shoot most of my landscapes with wide angles and standard lenses; only about 5% with telephotos. So my ideal setup is 645D with 33-55 + 75mm (or the coming 28-45(?)) + an APS camera for the tele, wildlife, macro + handheld work (small kit zoom). A complete MF setup only when near my car (I own the 120 macro + the 150-300).

I did the AF "test" years ago when the MZ-S came out. The general consensus among Canon shooters was that AF was useless for macro. I set up the camera with an insect on a straw moving back and forth in the wind in close to 1:1 magnification and the camera had an 80% hitrate in back and forth movements; very good. Next, after about and hour trail and error (the trial and error was to keep the sensor on the insect), I managed to get the camera to track fast moving bees in flight with the 200 macro. To me AF is of academic interest as the shortcomings are mine.
08-28-2012, 12:37 PM   #896
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Funny. I watch a pro almost every week (long story) shoot a wedding. I recall one APS-C in the past year or so. This is weddings near San Jose, CA at a cheaper facility.
Right. You live in a much wealthier area than I do. Average wedding photographer in my area bills around a thousand dollars to shoot a wedding. Most will do a high school senior shoot for 150 dollars (disk included). They are scraping by.

The average professional photographer takes in an income of just over 50,000 dollars a year in the United States. In rural areas, they take in far less, because people just can't afford to pay high rates for photos. It is definitely a tough field to be in. Just saying...
08-28-2012, 12:41 PM   #897
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I am not sure about their sources ... but the Moderator of a large German Nikon forum made a forum announcement for Sep. 12/13 and 1300€ for the Nikon D600 FF launch. That would be below the APSC K-3/K-S price as it is currently rumored.

At this price, I see Pentaxians drain out quickly
If this price estimate is correct it means that Pentax will have problem selling crop cameras for more than 900-1000€.

Some of us here have predicted cheap FF cameras here for a long time. If we saw it, Pentax must have and I would be surprised if Pentax don't have a FF soon.
08-28-2012, 12:47 PM   #898
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QuoteOriginally posted by Supernaut Quote
If this price estimate is correct it means that Pentax will have problem selling crop cameras for more than 900-1000€.

Some of us here have predicted cheap FF cameras here for a long time. If we saw it, Pentax must have and I would be surprised if Pentax don't have a FF soon.
This is already the case. The K-5 Silver Special Edition with the Silver 40mm started out at 1399 euro and is now at 1249 euro and is not moving.
Pentax K-5 + 40mm XS Silver Special Edition Kit - Digitale Camera's bij CameraNU.nl
08-28-2012, 12:57 PM   #899
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QuoteOriginally posted by Supernaut Quote
If this price estimate is correct it means that Pentax will have problem selling crop cameras for more than 900-1000€.
.

Why? Don't you think people who want crop cameras buy crop cameras and those who want FF buy FF?
08-28-2012, 01:12 PM   #900
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Why? Don't you think people who want crop cameras buy crop cameras and those who want FF buy FF?
Not to the extent that it will keep the already small market share the same or make it bigger. FF will soon be the main selling point instead of todays megapxels and high iso.
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