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08-28-2012, 10:30 PM - 1 Like   #931
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2009 thinking.

QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
There are rumors about a professional APS camera. There are several high-end APS lenses on the roadmap. Pentax could be the number one APS DSLR system provider; they have already the best APS lens line-up out there.
Would you buy a $1300 aps-c DSLR if there existed a $1600 FF camera that was as good or better in almost every way? If your answer is "absolutely", do you think that answer would be the answer of the majority of that market segment?

How about $1300 on that same aps-c DSLR if there was an excellent, smaller, m4/3 DSLR available for $1000?

Or would you readily spend $1300 on that aps-c DSLR if there were a slew of $450 - $750 MILC cameras out there that came with exiting, sharp, small lenses and delivered sensor IQ that was 85% as good as that $1300 aps-c DSLR?

Now - would you still happily buy that $1300 aps-c DSLR if all of the above were true at the same time?

It's not 2010 any more. Pentax is going to feel real price/margin pressure from above and performance pressure from below if they stick with aps-c DSLR. If they move into MILC, they have the disadvantage of having their register distance requirements keeping their bodies deeper/larger than the competition... And there would be more competition. Fuji, Panasonic, Samsung, Sony and Olympus hit just as hard in that tier as Canon and Nikon do right now.

I think that anyone who is serious about sticking with K-mount should really hope for a FF announcement for 2013.


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08-28-2012, 11:14 PM   #932
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
its a brilliant camera, and if you can afford it and find the need for it, then I'd say don't hesitate. The image quality and rendering is top notch, no question about that. I thought it was fun to use, and surprisingly light. But I decided after a using it for 2 days on a rental that I really don't need to buy a D800 and another kit of lenses to be happy. Pentax makes an incredible product, and a D800 is not going to make me a better photographer, so I'm just going to still with my K mount, which means more money for lenses, K mount bodies, etc.etc. instead of either taking a huge loss on selling Pentax gear or funding two systems.
This is an excellent reason to not jump ship. Pentax makes very good photography equipment, and truly excellent lenses, and they may yet deliver a FF body worthy of those lenses. And no camera makes you a better photographer.

The problem there isn't the present situation, but the future - does K-mount remain viable if they don't deliver that FF body? I'm not going to predict that it won't, but I do fear that it might not. (talking K-mount, not Pentax-Ricoh.)

QuoteQuote:
The big thing I found was that colors seemed to be more "flat" and not as vivid. Contrast was good, but not compared to what I could get from a FA77 and my K5 for example.
The 77 is a special lens, but I'm not sure how colors and contrast from the D800 or any modern DSLR could be considered 'flat'. Maybe your software wasn't picking up the camera profile and everything was presented at baseline/neutral? Anyway, contrast/color should not be a worry...







(imgwide below, click twice to expand)


QuoteQuote:
As for processing those huge files, well it takes a while to transfer over USB 2.0, but my Dell XPS15 was handling the image files without slow down. I would say without breaking a sweat, but this laptop runs hot when your sitting outside in the middle of winter... so whatever (hey Dell? Ever hear of COOLING and not using the aluminium case as a giant heatsink? ok, just checking)
I have not upgraded my computer yet, and dealing with the D800 files is a PITA, frankly. Drains some of the fun out of PP. (I expect that situation to remedy itself when I do upgrade, though.)


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08-29-2012, 12:17 AM   #933
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All these discussions are based around the current sensors continuing with the same technology.

Soon large sensors may not be required.

Check this InVisage
08-29-2012, 12:30 AM   #934
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ivor K Ecks Quote
All these discussions are based around the current sensors continuing with the same technology.

Soon large sensors may not be required.

Check this InVisage
Sheesh!
Talk about busting my fantasies

How long before we see this tech. coming to market?

08-29-2012, 01:05 AM   #935
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
There are so many crap comparisons that it is beyond belief. The 645D does not beat this.
That is a very good comparison of you. I'm now convinced the d800 is the better camera.
08-29-2012, 01:41 AM   #936
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
Sheesh! Talk about busting my fantasies How long before we see this tech. coming to market?
I can imagine this in a 645 successor. Oh, the possibilities.
This will also mean another competitor against Sigma's Foveon... poor Sigma...
08-29-2012, 01:42 AM   #937
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ivor K Ecks Quote
All these discussions are based around the current sensors continuing with the same technology.

Soon large sensors may not be required.

Check this InVisage
That sounds great. Is it already technology or just wishes?
08-29-2012, 01:49 AM   #938
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Based on the size of the Sony DSC-RX100 (1" sensor with 20.9MP) I'll suggest here that within 2 years we will see APS-C cameras with 40+mp and FF up to 100MP.

08-29-2012, 03:21 AM   #939
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QuoteOriginally posted by Supernaut Quote
If we saw it, Pentax must have

That's a good one


QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
Tell me more!
I'm about to pull the trigger on a D800 kit.
FYI. There are rumors that Nikon has halted the production of D800/E in order to fix the accuracy problems with the AF fields outside the 21 fields central region. If true, it may be a good idea to wait for fresh stock. However, I have no dates or serial# for you and Nikon says they will fix any camera anyway. There's just doubt that the fix will bring the AF on par.
08-29-2012, 05:30 AM   #940
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
I have not upgraded my computer yet, and dealing with the D800 files is a PITA, frankly. Drains some of the fun out of PP. (I expect that situation to remedy itself when I do upgrade, though.)
Wait, there's fun in post production?! I certainly didn't get that memo.
08-29-2012, 05:42 AM   #941
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QuoteOriginally posted by maxfield_photo Quote
Wait, there's fun in post production?! I certainly didn't get that memo.
I think he meant post processing.
That being said, I thought everyone loved post processing?
In fact, I'd go as far as saying that the best part about photography is developing the images.
08-29-2012, 06:28 AM   #942
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Production/processing, I use the two interchangeably, probably shouldn't. Anyway, it's awful, PP hasn't been fun since the switch to digital. That's why I do everything in manual - metering, white balance, lighting, focus - so that each frame can be processed with the same settings and I don't have to sit there doing 8 hours of post processing for a one hour shoot. If my camera could only shoot in 5:4.... My entire workflow is built around the concept of absolute minimal PP.
08-29-2012, 06:39 AM   #943
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QuoteOriginally posted by maxfield_photo Quote
Production/processing, I use the two interchangeably, probably shouldn't. Anyway, it's awful, PP hasn't been fun since the switch to digital. That's why I do everything in manual - metering, white balance, lighting, focus - so that each frame can be processed with the same settings and I don't have to sit there doing 8 hours of post processing for a one hour shoot. If my camera could only shoot in 5:4.... My entire workflow is built around the concept of absolute minimal PP.
Hmmm... I'm guessing there are varying views on what is meant by post processing. ie. one could look at digital image development from two different perspectives: 1) developing RAW images: such as you yourself described. 2) image enhancement: dragan effects, BW conversions, high and low key images, film modes etc. Though for the most part, I'd say post processing involves goes beyond the call of the initial development stages. ie. retouching and edits, digital correction and so on and so forth. - IOW. all the fun stuff

Needless to say, I truly enjoy post processing.
And coming to think of it, I actually enjoy developing RAW files also.
Not so much in terms of repetition, but with things like tweaking profiles so to continuously improve final output. Not to mention the wonders of seeing how files respond to the massive improvements in demosaic engines that have been made over the years. I mean... how fun is that!
I mean just thinking about it, makes me want to fire up RawTherapee and run some of files thought it.

Then again... maybe I'm just a little weird when it comes to that kind of stuff, I donno.

Last edited by JohnBee; 08-29-2012 at 06:50 AM.
08-29-2012, 06:42 AM   #944
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
And no camera makes you a better photographer.

The 77 is a special lens, but I'm not sure how colors and contrast from the D800 or any modern DSLR could be considered 'flat'. Maybe your software wasn't picking up the camera profile and everything was presented at baseline/neutral? Anyway, contrast/color should not be a worry...
I dont disagree with this - but i had the same view : straight out of camera the D800 is flat. Compared to K5 straight out of camera. In fact, compared to its own preview, lol. I had a model last week whose pictures were awesome in the preview - and she looked wider in the files. I had to compare it side by side, computer screen to camera preview. The shadow levels were distinctly more neutral - and made her look wide on the computer. Just a little extra tweaking in camera raw, every time. Luckily, the dynamic range is so flexible i can pull highlights from one end to another without making it greyish, and the same thing with shadows.

And while the D800 didnt make me a better photographer - i took the same image quality as i had before, it sure made me feel better about myself. The fast AF means taking more picture, faster, and I dont get this frozen smile when the models look at me uncertainly and wondered whether I know what I am doing as I tell them to hold still for my K5 to lock focus. So to other people, it looks like I am a better photographer.

Thats kind of important - as the rest of the shoot depends on how confident they are of me. (Same thing as showing models the image after the shot - so that she sees the result and go...woah. Thats good. i want more of that. )
08-29-2012, 06:45 AM   #945
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Personal preferences vary, and that's a good thing too. For me developing my digital images is probably even more fun that the snapping of the images itself.
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