Pentax full frame rumour

trublubiker · 07-10-2012, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

The MX and MESuper viewfinders are simply outstanding. Alas, those bodies are too small for my comfort. (Really, the K-5 and K-01 are too small for my hands).

I felt the same way about my K5, I seemed to have a couple of fingers left over.

I invested in the Pentax D-BG4 grip and wow, what a huge difference. It now sits comfortably in my hand, and all the needed controls are in the same place when shooting in portrait orientation.

**Pål Jensen** · 07-10-2012, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by falconeye

Y
More seriously though, here are some sources citing the article:

digicame-info.com (Japanese, so maybe, Pentax reads it? It now has 105 Japanese comments ...)
True Reasons for Full Frame cameras by Falk Lumo - 1001 Noisy Cameras
Is the future for DSLR/SLT Full Frame only? | sonyalpharumors
Valokuvaus, digikuvaus, digikamera, digitaalikamera, digiuutiset Hein

These are all circular rumors. I have not found any reliable rumors about the low price on coming FF cameras. If follow the rumors its all based on the fact that they are "entry level". Now that can mean so much; the entry level MF is for example $10 000. The current entry level FF DSLR body cost 28 000 NOK in my country. In comparison a K-5 can be had at 6300 NOK. Now thats the difference between entry level FF and top level APS currently.

I doubt you'll see any Pentax FF at Photokina. The 24mp model is most likely the K-5 sucessor.

Williunck · 07-12-2012, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

The 24mp model is most likely the K-5 sucessor.

I think this too, since the K5 is 2 years old and the K30 is clearly not it's replacement. It is possible they will announce more than one dslr this fall, but if there is only one I am betting it is aps-c.

froeschle · 07-12-2012, 09:33 AM

Quote:

[...] The current entry level FF DSLR body cost [...]

... about 1750€ in the EU:

Nikon D700: 1749€
Canon EOS 5D II: 1725€
Sony Alpha 850: 1751€

_quicksilver_ · 07-12-2012, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

The current entry level FF DSLR body cost 28 000 NOK in my country. In comparison a K-5 can be had at 6300 NOK. Now thats the difference between entry level FF and top level APS currently.

I know that Norway is expensive country, but I gotta say:

WOW, 28 000 krones? With todays ratings that´s 3 900,40 EUROS!!

Are you sure you are talking about entry level FF? The price of K-5 (6300 NOK), is the same as in Finland and rest of Europe ~870 euros.

eddie1960 · 07-12-2012, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by _quicksilver_

I know that Norway is expensive country, but I gotta say:

WOW, 28 000 krones? With todays ratings that´s 3 900,40 EUROS!!

Are you sure you are talking about entry level FF? The price of K-5 (6300 NOK), is the same as in Finland and rest of Europe ~870 euros.

sounds off to me, a model would have qualified it better than "an entry level FF"

current Models in FF in Canada are on Henrys or Vistek web sites
D800 - 2999
D800E - 3299
D4 - 5999
D3X - 7499
5D2 -2099
5D3 - 3699
Eos 1DX - 6999
M9 - 6999
M9P - 8499

D700 is gone now at both now. Sony models are also now gone at both. I imagine 5D2 is getting slim on stock as well

Raffwal · 07-12-2012, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by froeschle

... about 1750€ in the EU:

Nikon D700: 1749€
Canon EOS 5D II: 1725€
Sony Alpha 850: 1751€

Even cheaper in some places. Surprisingly the usually more expensive Finland has today the D700 for about 1700 € and the 5D Mk II for about 1650 €. Both prices from a reputable store.

falconeye · 07-13-2012, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by Raffwal

Even cheaper in some places. Surprisingly the usually more expensive Finland has today the D700 for about 1700 € and the 5D Mk II for about 1650 €. Both prices from a reputable store.

IMHO, the topic needs a bit more care.

On the one hand, it is true that one can buy FF for ~1750€ now where K-5 launched at 1500 € which is pretty close. But it is for discontinued FF models only where the advantage in image quality may be small (the D700 has very good AF and low light performance though -- and a better image quality with average lenses).

On the other hand, there are no entry-level FF cameras (yet). Vendors never made them. A mass produced FF camera today would probably launch around 1750 € too. We may see soon with the D600.

So, overall, the 1750 € ball park number for FF entrance cost isn't wrong.

eurostar · 07-13-2012, 02:45 AM

Originally posted by froeschle

... about 1750€ in the EU:

Nikon D700: 1749€
Canon EOS 5D II: 1725€
Sony Alpha 850: 1751€

But these are low megapixel count, two to three years old models, discontinued or approaching discontinuation. If you want to use them as a comparision for a new FF Pentax to be introduce you must look at the price they had when they were just introduced on the market. Even better, you must look at the price of the just introduce new models: Canon Eos 5D MIII and Nikon D800.

falconeye · 07-13-2012, 03:33 AM

Originally posted by eurostar

If you want to use them as a comparision for a new FF Pentax to be introduce you must look at the price they had when they were just introduced on the market. Even better, you must look at the price of the just introduce new models: Canon Eos 5D MIII and Nikon D800.

That's not right, cf. my post above.

A new FF Pentax wouldn't rival a D800 nor a 5DmkIII. Not in their first iteration. Depending on who makes the sensor, it better remains below the $2000 threshold or it won't sell. Not even Nikon would sell a full frame D7000 at more than this.

beholder3 · 07-13-2012, 03:40 AM

[deleted]

eurostar · 07-13-2012, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by falconeye

That's not right, cf. my post above.

A new FF Pentax wouldn't rival a D800 nor a 5DmkIII. Not in their first iteration. Depending on who makes the sensor, it better remains below the $2000 threshold or it won't sell. Not even Nikon would sell a full frame D7000 at more than this.

What do you think about the successor to the K-5? With the birth of the K-30, don't you think that the top-level APS-C reflex from Pentax will be specced quite above the K-5, and not just in term of pixel pitch? If so, don't you think that a full frame from pentax should be at least equal in specs to that APS-C camera? I can't believe that Pentax top camera (not counting 465D) could be a D7000 with full frame.

eurostar · 07-13-2012, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by beholder3

Given cashback in Germany the K-5 goes out brand new for 660 EUR today. That is the benchmark..

It's a camera at the end of its life on the shelf. In a mere two months there will be a K-3, with a price that will be at least back at what the K-5 cost at birth: 1499$. That would be the benchmark.

beholder3 · 07-14-2012, 02:06 PM

[deleted]

lammie200 · 07-14-2012, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by beholder3

...Do you think the average person will buy a K-5N for 1500? No, they will wait until the price drops to where they see the realistic price point for K-5 (660) + improvements (x)...

I have to admit that I have had a difficult time understanding what you are trying to get across. However, in just taking the statement above I get the feeling that you are saying that most people won't buy at the introductory price. I think that you need to look at the volume of K-5 sales at all the price points it was offered at. My guess is that there was a higher volume of sales when it was offered at $1500-$1300USD than at any other price point including what it is being offered at now. I think that the reason is because it is a technology dependent product. People recognize some form or another of Moore's Law. Most people don't want to wait to purchase a technologically dependent product until it is deemed obsolete. That said, some products reach there technological limits and don't get much better. For example, some people that won't want to deal with larger files may working under that assumption. They won't care that some features in the product line have evolved if they feel that what they purchased satisfies their needs and wants.

07-10-2012, 04:41 PM	#497
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by falconeye Y More seriously though, here are some sources citing the article: digicame-info.com (Japanese, so maybe, Pentax reads it? It now has 105 Japanese comments ...) True Reasons for Full Frame cameras by Falk Lumo - 1001 Noisy Cameras Is the future for DSLR/SLT Full Frame only? \| sonyalpharumors Valokuvaus, digikuvaus, digikamera, digitaalikamera, digiuutiset Hein These are all circular rumors. I have not found any reliable rumors about the low price on coming FF cameras. If follow the rumors its all based on the fact that they are "entry level". Now that can mean so much; the entry level MF is for example $10 000. The current entry level FF DSLR body cost 28 000 NOK in my country. In comparison a K-5 can be had at 6300 NOK. Now thats the difference between entry level FF and top level APS currently. I doubt you'll see any Pentax FF at Photokina. The 24mp model is most likely the K-5 sucessor. Last edited by Pål Jensen; 07-10-2012 at 04:47 PM.

07-13-2012, 03:40 AM	#506
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	[deleted] Last edited by beholder3; 08-11-2013 at 07:23 AM. Reason: [deleted]

07-14-2012, 02:06 PM	#509
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	[deleted] Last edited by beholder3; 08-11-2013 at 07:23 AM. Reason: [deleted]

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07-10-2012, 04:27 PM	#496
trublubiker Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Hunter Valley NSW AUSTRALIA Posts: 143	Originally posted by monochrome The MX and MESuper viewfinders are simply outstanding. Alas, those bodies are too small for my comfort. (Really, the K-5 and K-01 are too small for my hands). I felt the same way about my K5, I seemed to have a couple of fingers left over. I invested in the Pentax D-BG4 grip and wow, what a huge difference. It now sits comfortably in my hand, and all the needed controls are in the same place when shooting in portrait orientation.

07-12-2012, 08:01 AM	#498
Williunck Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 58	Originally posted by Pål Jensen The 24mp model is most likely the K-5 sucessor. I think this too, since the K5 is 2 years old and the K30 is clearly not it's replacement. It is possible they will announce more than one dslr this fall, but if there is only one I am betting it is aps-c.

07-12-2012, 09:33 AM	#499
froeschle Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 552	Quote: [...] The current entry level FF DSLR body cost [...] ... about 1750€ in the EU: Nikon D700: 1749€ Canon EOS 5D II: 1725€ Sony Alpha 850: 1751€

07-12-2012, 10:00 AM	#500
_quicksilver_ Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 207	Originally posted by Pål Jensen The current entry level FF DSLR body cost 28 000 NOK in my country. In comparison a K-5 can be had at 6300 NOK. Now thats the difference between entry level FF and top level APS currently. I know that Norway is expensive country, but I gotta say: WOW, 28 000 krones? With todays ratings that´s 3 900,40 EUROS!! Are you sure you are talking about entry level FF? The price of K-5 (6300 NOK), is the same as in Finland and rest of Europe ~870 euros.

07-12-2012, 10:18 AM	#501
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by _quicksilver_ I know that Norway is expensive country, but I gotta say: WOW, 28 000 krones? With todays ratings that´s 3 900,40 EUROS!! Are you sure you are talking about entry level FF? The price of K-5 (6300 NOK), is the same as in Finland and rest of Europe ~870 euros. sounds off to me, a model would have qualified it better than "an entry level FF" current Models in FF in Canada are on Henrys or Vistek web sites D800 - 2999 D800E - 3299 D4 - 5999 D3X - 7499 5D2 -2099 5D3 - 3699 Eos 1DX - 6999 M9 - 6999 M9P - 8499 D700 is gone now at both now. Sony models are also now gone at both. I imagine 5D2 is getting slim on stock as well

07-12-2012, 10:47 AM	#502
Raffwal Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The North Posts: 879	Originally posted by froeschle ... about 1750€ in the EU: Nikon D700: 1749€ Canon EOS 5D II: 1725€ Sony Alpha 850: 1751€ Even cheaper in some places. Surprisingly the usually more expensive Finland has today the D700 for about 1700 € and the 5D Mk II for about 1650 €. Both prices from a reputable store.

07-13-2012, 01:18 AM	#503
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Raffwal Even cheaper in some places. Surprisingly the usually more expensive Finland has today the D700 for about 1700 € and the 5D Mk II for about 1650 €. Both prices from a reputable store. IMHO, the topic needs a bit more care. On the one hand, it is true that one can buy FF for ~1750€ now where K-5 launched at 1500 € which is pretty close. But it is for discontinued FF models only where the advantage in image quality may be small (the D700 has very good AF and low light performance though -- and a better image quality with average lenses). On the other hand, there are no entry-level FF cameras (yet). Vendors never made them. A mass produced FF camera today would probably launch around 1750 € too. We may see soon with the D600. So, overall, the 1750 € ball park number for FF entrance cost isn't wrong.

07-13-2012, 02:45 AM	#504
eurostar Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Albareto, Italy Photos: Gallery Posts: 819	Originally posted by froeschle ... about 1750€ in the EU: Nikon D700: 1749€ Canon EOS 5D II: 1725€ Sony Alpha 850: 1751€ But these are low megapixel count, two to three years old models, discontinued or approaching discontinuation. If you want to use them as a comparision for a new FF Pentax to be introduce you must look at the price they had when they were just introduced on the market. Even better, you must look at the price of the just introduce new models: Canon Eos 5D MIII and Nikon D800.

07-13-2012, 03:33 AM	#505
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by eurostar If you want to use them as a comparision for a new FF Pentax to be introduce you must look at the price they had when they were just introduced on the market. Even better, you must look at the price of the just introduce new models: Canon Eos 5D MIII and Nikon D800. That's not right, cf. my post above. A new FF Pentax wouldn't rival a D800 nor a 5DmkIII. Not in their first iteration. Depending on who makes the sensor, it better remains below the $2000 threshold or it won't sell. Not even Nikon would sell a full frame D7000 at more than this.

07-13-2012, 12:00 PM	#507
eurostar Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Albareto, Italy Photos: Gallery Posts: 819	Originally posted by falconeye That's not right, cf. my post above. A new FF Pentax wouldn't rival a D800 nor a 5DmkIII. Not in their first iteration. Depending on who makes the sensor, it better remains below the $2000 threshold or it won't sell. Not even Nikon would sell a full frame D7000 at more than this. What do you think about the successor to the K-5? With the birth of the K-30, don't you think that the top-level APS-C reflex from Pentax will be specced quite above the K-5, and not just in term of pixel pitch? If so, don't you think that a full frame from pentax should be at least equal in specs to that APS-C camera? I can't believe that Pentax top camera (not counting 465D) could be a D7000 with full frame.

07-13-2012, 12:10 PM	#508
eurostar Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Albareto, Italy Photos: Gallery Posts: 819	Originally posted by beholder3 Given cashback in Germany the K-5 goes out brand new for 660 EUR today. That is the benchmark.. It's a camera at the end of its life on the shelf. In a mere two months there will be a K-3, with a price that will be at least back at what the K-5 cost at birth: 1499$. That would be the benchmark.

07-14-2012, 03:57 PM	#510
lammie200 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: San Francisco Photos: Albums Posts: 1,033	Originally posted by beholder3 ...Do you think the average person will buy a K-5N for 1500? No, they will wait until the price drops to where they see the realistic price point for K-5 (660) + improvements (x)... I have to admit that I have had a difficult time understanding what you are trying to get across. However, in just taking the statement above I get the feeling that you are saying that most people won't buy at the introductory price. I think that you need to look at the volume of K-5 sales at all the price points it was offered at. My guess is that there was a higher volume of sales when it was offered at $1500-$1300USD than at any other price point including what it is being offered at now. I think that the reason is because it is a technology dependent product. People recognize some form or another of Moore's Law. Most people don't want to wait to purchase a technologically dependent product until it is deemed obsolete. That said, some products reach there technological limits and don't get much better. For example, some people that won't want to deal with larger files may working under that assumption. They won't care that some features in the product line have evolved if they feel that what they purchased satisfies their needs and wants.