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08-27-2012, 11:24 AM   #811
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QuoteOriginally posted by zswjy Quote
there are to many rumors about pentax FF, I have a Fa 24-90mm lens, and i am not sure it's a good time to sell it.
I don't think there are any Pentax FF rumors; just FF wishes. I suspect Pentax will try to be an excellent if not the best provider of APS DSLR's. To excel in both APS, FF, 645 and the Q format will be difficult with Pentax marketshare. Pentax could spread themselves too thinly. I don't think there are any firm Pentax FF plans....

08-27-2012, 11:31 AM   #812
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We (should) know Pentax will not ditch the 645D, since they expanded the 645D lens roadmap not long ago.
08-27-2012, 11:32 AM   #813
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
I don't think there are any Pentax FF rumors; just FF wishes. I suspect Pentax will try to be an excellent if not the best provider of APS DSLR's. To excel in both APS, FF, 645 and the Q format will be difficult with Pentax marketshare. Pentax could spread themselves too thinly. I don't think there are any firm Pentax FF plans....
Isn't the question about Ricoh, not Pentax? I'm sure there have been Pentax full frame plans in the back rooms ever since the MZ-D was a possibility, but they just were never green lighted. There is no doubt, but that Ricoh has allowed Pentax to go forward with an awful lot of things that Hoya would never allow to go forward. I just don't have a good feel for what Ricoh is going to allow and what their tolerance for risk is.
08-27-2012, 11:45 AM   #814
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Isn't the question about Ricoh, not Pentax? I'm sure there have been Pentax full frame plans in the back rooms ever since the MZ-D was a possibility, but they just were never green lighted. There is no doubt, but that Ricoh has allowed Pentax to go forward with an awful lot of things that Hoya would never allow to go forward. I just don't have a good feel for what Ricoh is going to allow and what their tolerance for risk is.

I'm pretty sure that Pentax have had FF prototypes continuously, but I suspect that Pentax have decided on APS only for K-mount for the time being. I cannot see how they can be competetive in all segments if they marked an FF camera and lenses. That means four lens lines. The fact that Pentax have not adopted an FF lens naming policy (meaning that the FF customer have no way of knowing which lens is FF compatible except from trial and error) and that they have adopted the cropped nomenclature for 645 lens(es) strongly suggest that Pentax see both high-end APS (24mp K-3(?) to come) and cropped 645 as their FF answer...but I might be wrong...

08-27-2012, 11:56 AM   #815
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
I'm pretty sure that Pentax have had FF prototypes continuously, but I suspect that Pentax have decided on APS only for K-mount for the time being. I cannot see how they can be competetive in all segments if they marked an FF camera and lenses. That means four lens lines. The fact that Pentax have not adopted an FF lens naming policy (meaning that the FF customer have no way of knowing which lens is FF compatible except from trial and error) and that they have adopted the cropped nomenclature for 645 lens(es) strongly suggest that Pentax see both high-end APS (24mp K-3(?) to come) and cropped 645 as their FF answer...but I might be wrong...
I don't read a whole lot into the tea leaves at this point. I really think that Ricoh has been evaluating things up till now and has been taking stock of how they will invest in Pentax and where to go forward. There is really little point in looking at history under Hoya to tell us how Pentax will move forward, as Hoya acted primarily as a care-taker, doing just enough to keep the brand alive, but not willing to invest in anything risky.

Not saying that Pentax is releasing a full frame (my guess would be an announcement with a release in spring of 2013), but I just don't think we can look at past history to tell how Ricoh is going to move forward. If they really want to challenge Canon, then they will green light full frame, even if it means a high initial investment to get the line up to speed.
08-27-2012, 11:58 AM   #816
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
I don't think there are any Pentax FF rumors; just FF wishes. I suspect Pentax will try to be an excellent if not the best provider of APS DSLR's. To excel in both APS, FF, 645 and the Q format will be difficult with Pentax marketshare. Pentax could spread themselves too thinly. I don't think there are any firm Pentax FF plans....
Isn't the question about Ricoh, not Pentax? I'm sure there have been Pentax full frame plans in the back rooms ever since the MZ-D was a possibility, but they just were never green lighted. There is no doubt, but that Ricoh has allowed Pentax to go forward with an awful lot of things that Hoya would never allow to go forward. I just don't have a good feel for what Ricoh is going to allow and what their tolerance for risk is.
In my view not entering the full frame market is a much riskier proposition for a DSLR maker than going ahead and taking the plunge into it. Look at all the moans and groans here on the forum simply because Pentax doesn't have a full frame camera. Look at the virtual absence of Pentax in the pro field, not unlikely due at least in part to there not being an FF option. Look at the ever dwindling amount of third party support for Pentax, again not unlikely due to the fact that they don't have an FF body. Look at the industry's, and individual photographer's, general impression of Pentax that is also in part molded by the lack of a Pentax FF lineup. All of that could potentially be turned around 180 degrees with the rather simple addition of a Pentax full frame camera and lens lineup. Pentax could garner all kinds of favorable attention, almost overnight too, from just the addition of a single FF camera. Follow that up with a second FF body and some new FF lenses, and Pentax would very likely once again be considered a serious camera maker by both the industry at large and by photographers of all ilk. Being APS-C only has more or less worked for Pentax so far, but it hasn't been without its toll. The price of being APS-C only is, in my approximation, increasing every year that goes by. And medium format simply isn't a substitute for 135 full frame.
08-27-2012, 12:10 PM   #817
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There have been whisperings on the street here and from time to time on the Forum that Ricoh intends to make a full-on professional camera with professional support for release in 2013. I've always assumed that meant a FF camera - but what if they continue to drive the small form factor, wring more out of the sensor than anyone else and offer a full-on professional APSc camera?

That would actually be very Pentax, wouldn't it? Offer a digital MX instead of a digital LX?


Last edited by monochrome; 08-28-2012 at 12:23 PM.
08-27-2012, 12:21 PM   #818
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
There have been whisperings on the street here and from time to time on the Forum that Ricoh intends to make a full-on professional camera with professional support for release in 2013. I've always assumed that meant a FF camera - but what if they continue to drive the small form factor, wring more out of the sensor that anyone else and offer a full-on professional APSc camera? That would actually be very Pentax, wouldn't it? Offer a digital MX instead of a digital LX?
I'd like to see both, a pro-speced APS-C and an FF. I do believe that there is room for a pro-level APSC body. I would want to use that camera and feel that the K-5 is practically that. But I also feel that the photogs who want a pro-level APSC will, if not immediately then in time, also want a FF camera but they won't really want to manage two systems. It would be great for Pentax to have a combo similar to what you see a lot of Canon and Nikon users with: a 5DmkII and 7D, a D700 and D300s.

Edit: The matter of pro-level APS-C only lenses is a bit more questionable. I think that having the majority of the best lenses in the catalog be FF compatible would be the way to go. The DA Limiteds though are indeed excellent, and their quality as APS-C only lenses is really quite remarkable and unique to Pentax. The DA* f/2.8 zooms would have made a pretty strong case for pro-grade APS-C lenses were it not for all the complaints about slow focusing and busted SDM.

Last edited by TomTextura; 08-27-2012 at 12:34 PM.
08-27-2012, 01:19 PM   #819
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
There have been whisperings on the street here and from time to time on the Forum that Ricoh intends to make a full-on professional camera with professional support for release in 2013. I've always assumed that meant a FF camera - but what if they continue to drive the small form factor, wring more out of the sensor that anyone else and offer a full-on professional APSc camera?

That would actually be very Pentax, wouldn't it? Offer a digital MX instead of a digital LX?
That would be very Pentax indeed. Disappointing their user-base has become a bit of a tradition for them now.
08-27-2012, 01:23 PM   #820
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Pentax doesn't have the autofocus capability req'd for a 'pro' who wants APS-C.
08-27-2012, 02:05 PM   #821
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Pentax doesn't (yet) have the autofocus capability req'd for a 'pro' who wants APS-C.
Correction in red is mine
08-27-2012, 02:17 PM   #822
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Pentax doesn't have the autofocus capability req'd for a 'pro' who wants APS-C.
I assume that by 'pro' here we are talking basically sports, and possibly journalists (of certain types) and nature. I would think these are the most dependent upon the AF system.
08-27-2012, 02:18 PM   #823
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisJowett Quote
Call me crazy, but I see the future of any K-3 as replacing the 645D.
...
We’ve got to the point where a full-frame DSLR could carry a 40mp sensor;the 36mp sensor in the Nikon D800E outperforms the sensor in the Pentax 645D inmost regards and is only a tad short on actual pixels.
...
For this statement, yes, you sound a bit crazy : the difference btw 645D sensor and 35mm is roughly the same as btw 35mm and APS-C regarding size.
One of the actual and measurable consequence besides bokeh and global light capability, is that you get at best in file resolution at lower than f/8 with D800, compared to lower than f/13 with 645D.
This said, the commercial birth-day of a CMOS 33x44mm sensor has not happened, yet.
08-27-2012, 02:39 PM   #824
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Full Frame Speculation

I just can't see how Pentax cannot be impacted by the number of Pentaxians who have recently moved onto other manufacturers for the sole reason of purchasing a full frame body.

I belong to a camera club with about 200 members and during the past 4 months at least 10 of them (Nikon and Canon users) have moved to full frame since the D800 and then new Canon's were released. Clearly this shift has been noticed by all camera manufacturers including Ricoh/Pentax. With the upcoming release of the supposed D600 I predict the shift will be a stampede within the Nikon ranks and if Ricoh Pentax doesn't recognize this and adapt, announcements of new APSC bodies will hardly be noticed by the photography community.
08-27-2012, 02:47 PM   #825
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I really don't think we will get a FF K-mount camera at Photokina. Just too many things to do and not enough time. Pentax seems to have the capability to release a K-mount camera ever three months. At least this is the trend with the K-01 and the K30. I am guessing a K-5 replacement and an budget K300 are what we will see at Photokina . Then at CP+ we might see two pro-level cameras. One being a aps-c and the train FF model. Think like Nikon did with the D300 and D700.

Dave
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