[RonHendriks1966]

I have never met a pro who is concerned about AF regardless of what camera he uses. AF is usually a concern among the amateurs; often the incompetent ones!
In fact, no pro I know even use AF!

Well the world is bigger then yours.

I use my K-5's for sports images. That is a hard task, since I do have a set-back compared to the real pro's. Those with Nikon (D3/D3s/D4) and Canon (1Div and 7D) are a lot faster in taking the right image or at least they have their work done with technical advances. When I look at the amatures that run around with Nikon (D300 and D300s) or Canon (mostley 7D now) then there is a technical difference, but I can compensate with my own knowledge.

I would like Pentax to come out with an AF-module that is more competent then running in K-5 at the time. I found that even the 645D was faster and more accurate in this matter (they are not the same AF-modules, no matter what people think). I would like some faster focussing lenses then current running SDM-lenses. That would make my work a lot more easier to do. I now compensate for that setback with making more images then others do, but then I have a lot more work finding that image I need.

The use of a top-model APS-C camera combined with a Full Frame camera (that is on the cheap side for these models) would make a great set for a lot of users. Sportsimages is just one side to this. Both models could use a lot of the same development inside. Same new AF-module that has a lot to offer starting from K-5. A new electronic engine (I would prefer a dual processor, PRIME M or even newer and faster, also for 645Dii) could make both camera's very capable. USB 3.0 would make connection to a computer very handy, and no fuss with cards (dual cardslot would be okay) anymore. When the Full Frame model also has a crop-system then it does get more things done (making it a combined Full Frame and APS-H camera).

That is a lot of work, but can be done!

For those who never look into the K-5 sportsimages section:
Soccer 1

Soccer 5

[fikkser]

The D800E does indeed challenge the 645D. Very much so. Just look into web sites which discuss HB, P1, 645D, S2 and now the D800E. Samples show no advantage for the cropped MF cameras.

The 645D has a future though simply because it allows photographers to differentiate from the crowd.

I've seen two different comparisons between d800 and 645d, and the 645d beats the d800 pretty hard at base iso. Don't remember what lenses was used with the Nikon, but it wasn't good enough to compete with the 645d 55 2,8 at all.

[thibs]

It takes 2 seconds to apply a 1:1 crop in PP , no big deal.

I don't care about the crop in PP, I want to see the crop in the VF. That's why a crop mode is useful, otherwise no crop mode in the camera at all and crop in PP. Annoying mmh ?

Anybody who has used a 6x6 for a long time will tell you that there's nothing like a square VF. And no, cropping later isn't an option. It sucks.

[the swede]

Pros who need the 'best' AF
1) Sports photographers
2) Nature photographers
3) Some wedding photographers (some here have complained about Pentax AF in churches,etc not being good enough)

+ ordinary soccer dad camera enthusiasts like me.

[falconeye]

I've seen two different comparisons between d800 and 645d, and the 645d beats the d800 pretty hard at base iso. Don't remember what lenses was used with the Nikon, but it wasn't good enough to compete with the 645d 55 2,8 at all.

There are so many crap comparisons that it is beyond belief. The 645D does not beat this.

[falconeye]

I am not sure about their sources ... but the Moderator of a large German Nikon forum made a forum announcement for Sep. 12/13 and 1300€ for the Nikon D600 FF launch. That would be below the APSC K-3/K-S price as it is currently rumored.

At this price, I see Pentaxians drain out quickly

[RonHendriks1966]

I am not sure about their sources ... but the Moderator of a large German Nikon forum made a forum announcement for Sep. 12/13 and 1300€ for the Nikon D600 FF launch. That would be below the APSC K-3/K-S price as it is currently rumored.

At this price, I see Pentaxians drain out quickly

At that price Pentax has to offer something real good.

[Mehlsack]

Well 24MPs isnt that the rumored Sony FF-Sensor?

If Pentax uses the same and comes out at 1800 it will just fail hard... poor pentax, well at least i dont have to buy the D800 and can use the money for a new lens

[Pål Jensen]

It depends on what kind of shooting the pro is doing. I know most of my canikon friends doing weddings use AF for at least half of the day. They might do manual for detail shots and portraits and then switch to AF for the ceremony and reception. I could see a pro landscape shooter always being manual and same with a product shooter. The choice of AF vs. manual really has more to do with your subject than your amateur or pro status.

Theres no camera on the marked where the AF isn't good enough for weddings.

[Pål Jensen]

2) Nature photographers
(

The only professional nature photographer who specificially mention Pentax AF (SAFOX V) says it gives just as many keepers as his Canon 1-series camera.
This is in print in a published book with photos of dancing Sifakas something that is much harder to shoot than weddings. Those who whine about AF are usually amateurs to make an excuse to buy a new toy. Pros manage to make AF work regardless of camera.
As a nature photographer I have never encountered a situation where AF isn't fast enough.

[Pål Jensen]

There are so many crap comparisons that it is beyond belief. The 645D does not beat this.

That image has very low technical quality as the photographer was unable to keep the subject in focus (did someone say crap comparisons?). Too little DOF. Most of the image is not sharp and the little that is, is not something to judge quality from. The 645D in capable hands will do better than this.
BTW that image would have been rejected in any publication.

[TomTextura]

Risk of not entering the sub 5% of the DSLR market? The whining notwithstanding, there isn't a huge potential for a Pentax FF camera. In this forums there are numerous users that have changed to Pentax from FF. FF is also not a natural upgrade path from APS in spite of the same lens mount; in order to take advantage of FF you need to buy FF lenses. You could just then buy a Nikon or a Canon if you aren't among those few (not enough to make FF viable) that own legacy glass (most probably not good enough anyway for future FF sensors). Most pros do not use FF and Pentax lack of presense in the pro arena (they have never had a significant pro user group except for medium format) has nothing to do with FF.

The FF market is bound to get bigger. And it's not just about that specific portion of the market; it's about creating an attractive and complete system, one with an upgrade path that will draw in new customers. Sure, you have to have FF lenses to make a perfectly seamless transition from APS-C to FF, but there is a crop mode in the Nikon models for APS-C lenses and people do pay attention to what lenses they buy so that their options remain open. People switching to Nikon and Canon is at least a small problem for Pentax. "Most pros do not use FF". I seriously doubt that's at all accurate. Over 90% of the pro's blogs and websites I visit are FF users. Sure, some pros started off with APS-C/H but nearly all seem to have eventually moved up. The upward migration to FF is only going to increase as sensor prices come down. So Pentax hasn't had a big presence in the pro arena, how about among enthusiasts then? There are more and more enthusiasts shelling out for FF even though they don't "need" it. Does Pentax really not want any slice of that pie? Pentax hasn't had that large of a presence in any market for some time so why wouldn't they want to increase their presence wherever they can? Full frame is at arms reach for Pentax, they should take hold of it already!

There are rumors about a professional APS camera. There are several high-end APS lenses on the roadmap. Pentax could be the number one APS DSLR system provider; they have already the best APS lens line-up out there.

I'm skeptical about how many photographers are going to want to spend top dollar to get all the highest grade gear possible for APS-C just to end up being a hop and a skip away investment-wise from having a full frame set up but not have the option available to them. Pentax does have a great set of lenses with the DA Limited primes. Zooms are something of a different matter. And other than being able to reach truly wide angle focal lengths, FF lenses work plenty well on APS-C.

I have never met a pro who is concerned about AF regardless of what camera he uses. AF is usually a concern among the amateurs; often the incompetent ones! In fact, no pro I know even use AF!

That's simply ridiculous, and rather transparently condescending. AF absolutely matters, to lots and lots and lots of photographers in myriad situations. MF is great and all, but in fast moving/changing situations AF can mean the difference between getting the shot or not, which is extremely important to pros and amateurs alike. And APS-C is not exactly the best suited to manual focusing.

[bxf]

Theres no camera on the marked where the AF isn't good enough for weddings.

You must be referring to AF speed, and whereas I also don't see the big deal about one camera being able to focus .2 seconds faster than another, AF accuracy and consistency ARE valid concerns, weddiings or elsewhere.

[volley]

At this price, I see Pentaxians drain out quickly

... maybe with the exception of those "few" who are just happy with their equipment and try to improve as photographers instead of beeing obsessed by the latest and greatest gear all the time.

Don't take the couple of people participating in threats like this for the majority of Pentax users.

[Wired]

... maybe with the exception of those "few" who are just happy with their equipment and try to improve as photographers instead of beeing obsessed by the latest and greatest gear all the time.

Don't take the couple of people participating in threats like this for the majority of Pentax users.

Please don't follow those threats. I'll be a Pentaxian until I die. I don't have any reason to change, I work within the limitations of my gear. Besides.. Nikon and Canon require too much tinkering in PP To get the colors and contrast Pentax gives you. I had a D800 for a day, I liked it sure, but it made me cherish my K5 even more!