Pentax full frame rumour

LamyTax · 08-30-2012, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by Chaos_Realm

If I was a pentax employee I would ask for a dollar each time someone asked me about FF (My get rich scheme

). With all respect he probably has no idea. Things like that are generally kept to a need to know basis even parts manufacturers are probably kept slightly in the dark about components they are making. The old "Those who know don't talk, and those who talk don't know." adage is very applicable. I would say Pentax is one of the better companies at keeping secrets, like the new X-5 only really leaked a couple of days before it was announced.

Actual secrecy is on average a function of how many people know. With Pentax, that's a lot less than Canon.

This close to Photokina, the leaks are large and constant, but if you don't know, you can't tell dreams from reality

.

Chaos_Realm · 08-30-2012, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by LamyTax

Actual secrecy is on average a function of how many people know. With Pentax, that's a lot less than Canon.

Yeah that is true, plus add a few clauses in employee contracts with some hefty consequences for those who are in the know to ward off the "honest" whisperers and leaks dry up pretty fast.

bossa · 08-30-2012, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by Chaos_Realm

Actually that idea has been around a while (probably not externally publicized though). My university was advertising it for a few months back in 2010 on it's web site as they have a few research papers on it.
Electromagnetism: does its strength vary across the Universe? - Swinburne Research Bank : Open Access Repository

Thanks CR

PS: Reading the 'Abstract' on that page I can't help wondering if the gravitational mass of the universe itself is the driving force for the existence of EM anyway. I realize they are [supposedly] two different things but it may be possible the EM is the release valve of the universe .. a naive view but I thought it worth mentioning.

PS2: I expect that all matter will be found out to be a form of EM soon enough.

Chaos_Realm · 08-30-2012, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by bossa

Thanks CR

PS: Reading the 'Abstract' on that page I can't help wondering if the gravitational mass of the universe itself is the driving force for the existence of EM anyway. I realize they are [supposedly] two different things but it may be possible the EM is the release valve of the universe .. a naive view but I thought it worth mentioning.

PS2: I expect that all matter will be found out to be a form of EM soon enough.

Hmm upon more research I think i was wrong saying 2010. This was the article I was referring to, which dates Oct 2011.
Nature's laws may vary across the Universe - Swinburne Media Centre

bossa · 08-30-2012, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by Chaos_Realm

Hmm upon more research I think i was wrong saying 2010. This was the article I was referring to, which dates Oct 2011.
Nature's laws may vary across the Universe - Swinburne Media Centre

Yes, that was what I read I believe. Fascinating!

glanglois · 08-30-2012, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by vince1987

hahaha. I'd do that!

He didnt smile the first time I asked him though, but only on the second time.

Maybe it means something, maybe it doesnt. I'm still excited to see what they have in store for us at Photokina.

It means he likes you better after the nice bottle of wine you invested in his discretion .....

Raffwal · 08-30-2012, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by cfraz

There were FF Pentax rumors long before the 1April joke.

Was there ever a time when there wasn't Pentax rumors?

thibs · 08-30-2012, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by LamyTax

b) what can be done to small sensors can be done to large sensors, too. So they'll always have advantages.

Technically of course.
Practically not. Of all kind of reasons being mostly price and ROI. Otherwise every digital MF on the market would go to 51200+ Iso. So this is true but should be put in context (unfortunately I'd say).

APS-C is, for now, at a sweet spot from a tech PoV (getting tech from small sensors rapidly, and evolving fast). FF less but size of sensor compensate somewhat for it (new FF sensors kills the competition, but 2-3 years later gets competition from APS at low ISO). MF though... slugish is stuck with ... CCD

All I wrote does NOT take into account any photographic/optic difference. I know bigger is better, this is NOT the problem here.

Kunzite · 08-30-2012, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by vince1987

He didnt smile the first time I asked him though, but only on the second time.

Maybe it means something, maybe it doesnt. I'm still excited to see what they have in store for us at Photokina.

Straight face at first. Second time, a smile. Do we see a trend here?
Next time, he'll laugh his a**e off

falconeye · 08-31-2012, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by bossa

I read a news report yesterday (somewhere) which stated that measurements seem to indicate that the laws of electromagnetism might well be very different in the far reaches of the universe. So it's possible that the laws of nature may not be as immutable as we thought.

Physicists never think or even claim that laws of nature are immutable.

It is their profession to try to alter them, their raison d'etre. That's why they try to stay as open minded as possible -- without however becoming dreamers

Now, to assume a constant actually is a field is common business in physics. So, variations of electromagnetic coupling constant (alpha) or gravitation are constantly being hunted for. If alpha turns into a field, physics would change and progress would happen. But in a way that current laws become special cases which still remain valid. No hope for photographers believing into magic

As for the work of Prof. Webbs (and this is what was addressed in the article you have read) ... his probably most recent publication is
-> http://arxiv.org/pdf/1202.4758v1.pdf

Please, refer specifically to Fig.8 and Fig.14. And decide for yourself. I never trust second sources when it comes to such things. Let me say this: Not all researchers are convinced about the conclusiveness of results. I share the doubt. Esp. as results of two observatories are combined and "by accident" one sees one side of the postulated dipole (of pstulated alpha field) and the other observatory sees the opposite side. That triggers my alarm bells.

Unfortunately, media have more recently adopted a policy to report about premature research results from physicists. I only say magnetic monopole, cold fusion or faster than light neutrinos in Italy. IMHO, this includes the Higgs boson discovery (which I think is real but results are too premature to be released to the grand public) and various studies about variations of coupling constants.

Of course, it is all entirely ff-topic here

bossa · 08-31-2012, 01:57 AM

Fantasy and imagination (dreaming?) are important to all areas of creative human activity and to assume that good science exists without such is a fantasy in itself.

falconeye · 08-31-2012, 05:21 AM

Originally posted by bossa

Fantasy and imagination (dreaming?) are important to all areas of creative human activity and to assume that good science exists without such is a fantasy in itself.

Please, don't twist my words. I think you know what I meant.

I explicitely used the word "dreaming" and not fantasy, imagination, or more importantly, intuition. E.g., Einstein did not dream curved space time, he had the intuition to understand that the equivalence principle has a deep impact if fully thought thru ("what is a straight line near a star?") and sought for the mathematical assistance (tensor analysis) to work out the difficult details.

The difference between (physical) science and dreams is that science takes a guided tour through the space of all imaginable things, while dreams take an unguided tour. And more importantly, sometimes, the guided tour eventually reaches unimaginable things.

lytrytyr · 08-31-2012, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

dreams take an unguided tour.

This thread is certainly taking an unguided tour!

eddie1960 · 08-31-2012, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by lytrytyr

This thread is certainly taking an unguided tour!

it sure is and If it continues I'd close it , but of course 5 more FF threads will just pop up to replace it. it's like trying to eliminate Mint from a garden

Tom S. · 08-31-2012, 01:02 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by falconeye

Please, don't twist my words. I think you know what I meant.

I explicitely used the word "dreaming" and not fantasy, imagination, or more importantly, intuition. E.g., Einstein did not dream curved space time, he had the intuition to understand that the equivalence principle has a deep impact if fully thought thru ("what is a straight line near a star?") and sought for the mathematical assistance (tensor analysis) to work out the difficult details.

The difference between (physical) science and dreams is that science takes a guided tour through the space of all imaginable things, while dreams take an unguided tour. And more importantly, sometimes, the guided tour eventually reaches unimaginable things.

So, are you saying that if Einstein were around today, he would be dreaming about a full frame Pentax?

(Trying to get back on track.)

08-30-2012, 04:49 PM	#1008
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	Originally posted by Chaos_Realm Actually that idea has been around a while (probably not externally publicized though). My university was advertising it for a few months back in 2010 on it's web site as they have a few research papers on it. Electromagnetism: does its strength vary across the Universe? - Swinburne Research Bank : Open Access Repository Thanks CR PS: Reading the 'Abstract' on that page I can't help wondering if the gravitational mass of the universe itself is the driving force for the existence of EM anyway. I realize they are [supposedly] two different things but it may be possible the EM is the release valve of the universe .. a naive view but I thought it worth mentioning. PS2: I expect that all matter will be found out to be a form of EM soon enough. Last edited by bossa; 08-30-2012 at 05:07 PM.

08-31-2012, 05:21 AM	#1017
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by bossa Fantasy and imagination (dreaming?) are important to all areas of creative human activity and to assume that good science exists without such is a fantasy in itself. Please, don't twist my words. I think you know what I meant. I explicitely used the word "dreaming" and not fantasy, imagination, or more importantly, intuition. E.g., Einstein did not dream curved space time, he had the intuition to understand that the equivalence principle has a deep impact if fully thought thru ("what is a straight line near a star?") and sought for the mathematical assistance (tensor analysis) to work out the difficult details. The difference between (physical) science and dreams is that science takes a guided tour through the space of all imaginable things, while dreams take an unguided tour. And more importantly, sometimes, the guided tour eventually reaches unimaginable things. Last edited by falconeye; 08-31-2012 at 05:29 AM.

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08-30-2012, 04:30 PM	#1006
LamyTax Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 376	Originally posted by Chaos_Realm If I was a pentax employee I would ask for a dollar each time someone asked me about FF (My get rich scheme ). With all respect he probably has no idea. Things like that are generally kept to a need to know basis even parts manufacturers are probably kept slightly in the dark about components they are making. The old "Those who know don't talk, and those who talk don't know." adage is very applicable. I would say Pentax is one of the better companies at keeping secrets, like the new X-5 only really leaked a couple of days before it was announced. Actual secrecy is on average a function of how many people know. With Pentax, that's a lot less than Canon. This close to Photokina, the leaks are large and constant, but if you don't know, you can't tell dreams from reality .

08-30-2012, 04:38 PM	#1007
Chaos_Realm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,251	Originally posted by LamyTax Actual secrecy is on average a function of how many people know. With Pentax, that's a lot less than Canon. Yeah that is true, plus add a few clauses in employee contracts with some hefty consequences for those who are in the know to ward off the "honest" whisperers and leaks dry up pretty fast.

08-30-2012, 05:23 PM	#1009
Chaos_Realm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,251	Originally posted by bossa Thanks CR PS: Reading the 'Abstract' on that page I can't help wondering if the gravitational mass of the universe itself is the driving force for the existence of EM anyway. I realize they are [supposedly] two different things but it may be possible the EM is the release valve of the universe .. a naive view but I thought it worth mentioning. PS2: I expect that all matter will be found out to be a form of EM soon enough. Hmm upon more research I think i was wrong saying 2010. This was the article I was referring to, which dates Oct 2011. Nature's laws may vary across the Universe - Swinburne Media Centre

08-30-2012, 05:35 PM	#1010
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	Originally posted by Chaos_Realm Hmm upon more research I think i was wrong saying 2010. This was the article I was referring to, which dates Oct 2011. Nature's laws may vary across the Universe - Swinburne Media Centre Yes, that was what I read I believe. Fascinating!

08-30-2012, 06:30 PM	#1011
glanglois Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Madison, Wis., USA Posts: 1,506	Originally posted by vince1987 hahaha. I'd do that! He didnt smile the first time I asked him though, but only on the second time. Maybe it means something, maybe it doesnt. I'm still excited to see what they have in store for us at Photokina. It means he likes you better after the nice bottle of wine you invested in his discretion .....

08-30-2012, 09:14 PM	#1012
Raffwal Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The North Posts: 879	Originally posted by cfraz There were FF Pentax rumors long before the 1April joke. Was there ever a time when there wasn't Pentax rumors?

08-30-2012, 10:39 PM	#1013
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by LamyTax b) what can be done to small sensors can be done to large sensors, too. So they'll always have advantages. Technically of course. Practically not. Of all kind of reasons being mostly price and ROI. Otherwise every digital MF on the market would go to 51200+ Iso. So this is true but should be put in context (unfortunately I'd say). APS-C is, for now, at a sweet spot from a tech PoV (getting tech from small sensors rapidly, and evolving fast). FF less but size of sensor compensate somewhat for it (new FF sensors kills the competition, but 2-3 years later gets competition from APS at low ISO). MF though... slugish is stuck with ... CCD All I wrote does NOT take into account any photographic/optic difference. I know bigger is better, this is NOT the problem here.

08-30-2012, 11:38 PM	#1014
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by vince1987 He didnt smile the first time I asked him though, but only on the second time. Maybe it means something, maybe it doesnt. I'm still excited to see what they have in store for us at Photokina. Straight face at first. Second time, a smile. Do we see a trend here? Next time, he'll laugh his a**e off

08-31-2012, 01:23 AM	#1015
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by bossa I read a news report yesterday (somewhere) which stated that measurements seem to indicate that the laws of electromagnetism might well be very different in the far reaches of the universe. So it's possible that the laws of nature may not be as immutable as we thought. Physicists never think or even claim that laws of nature are immutable. It is their profession to try to alter them, their raison d'etre. That's why they try to stay as open minded as possible -- without however becoming dreamers Now, to assume a constant actually is a field is common business in physics. So, variations of electromagnetic coupling constant (alpha) or gravitation are constantly being hunted for. If alpha turns into a field, physics would change and progress would happen. But in a way that current laws become special cases which still remain valid. No hope for photographers believing into magic As for the work of Prof. Webbs (and this is what was addressed in the article you have read) ... his probably most recent publication is -> http://arxiv.org/pdf/1202.4758v1.pdf Please, refer specifically to Fig.8 and Fig.14. And decide for yourself. I never trust second sources when it comes to such things. Let me say this: Not all researchers are convinced about the conclusiveness of results. I share the doubt. Esp. as results of two observatories are combined and "by accident" one sees one side of the postulated dipole (of pstulated alpha field) and the other observatory sees the opposite side. That triggers my alarm bells. Unfortunately, media have more recently adopted a policy to report about premature research results from physicists. I only say magnetic monopole, cold fusion or faster than light neutrinos in Italy. IMHO, this includes the Higgs boson discovery (which I think is real but results are too premature to be released to the grand public) and various studies about variations of coupling constants. Of course, it is all entirely ff-topic here

08-31-2012, 01:57 AM	#1016
bossa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,546	Fantasy and imagination (dreaming?) are important to all areas of creative human activity and to assume that good science exists without such is a fantasy in itself.

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08-31-2012, 08:39 AM	#1018
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by falconeye dreams take an unguided tour. This thread is certainly taking an unguided tour!

08-31-2012, 10:26 AM	#1019
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by lytrytyr This thread is certainly taking an unguided tour! it sure is and If it continues I'd close it , but of course 5 more FF threads will just pop up to replace it. it's like trying to eliminate Mint from a garden

08-31-2012, 01:02 PM - 1 Like	#1020
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by falconeye Please, don't twist my words. I think you know what I meant. I explicitely used the word "dreaming" and not fantasy, imagination, or more importantly, intuition. E.g., Einstein did not dream curved space time, he had the intuition to understand that the equivalence principle has a deep impact if fully thought thru ("what is a straight line near a star?") and sought for the mathematical assistance (tensor analysis) to work out the difficult details. The difference between (physical) science and dreams is that science takes a guided tour through the space of all imaginable things, while dreams take an unguided tour. And more importantly, sometimes, the guided tour eventually reaches unimaginable things. So, are you saying that if Einstein were around today, he would be dreaming about a full frame Pentax? (Trying to get back on track.)