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09-27-2012, 01:53 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
They can even play Google ads, which I believe will be the next revolutionary step after the Android cameras; and Facebook integration, because one can't miss an important update while he's shooting
You're turning me into an OVF luddite already

09-27-2012, 09:23 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Maybe OVFs will be something only nostalgics care about in just a couple of years?
You're off by a couple years if the runaway success of mirrorless is any indication.

There's an entire buying generation who've only taken pictures by LCD. Mirrorless has completely revitalized traditional photo companies Olympus and Fuji, and made Sony a contender again.

The market has certainly changed (and aged) and even stodgy old Leica have accepted the future and put video and an external (Olympus) EVF on their new flagship.
09-27-2012, 10:25 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
You're off by a couple years if the runaway success of mirrorless is any indication.
Not quite. Even in Japan the best-selling models are still APS-C DSLRs.
09-27-2012, 10:38 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by DragonLord Quote
Likely status of full-frame development based on the rumors and responses in several interviews (especially this one):
There is no FF body development from Pentax - spreading more of the FF crap is doing nothing but hurting Pentax as a whole:

QuoteQuote:
We also believe the APS-C sensor has a lot of future potential. APS-C used to have noise problems, and so on. But with the evolution in technology, for example, the K-5 has an available ISO of 51,200.

So as of today, we will continue focusing on the APS-C cameras. It depends on the user demands, also the market situation. We will study continue to study the market.
Translation of the underlined = No FF Body From Pentax, pretty simply put. The market barely demands Pentax products now (3% market share really is nothing), does anyone actually think a FF will help Pentax in it's market share initiative?

09-27-2012, 10:56 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
There is no FF body development from Pentax - spreading more of the FF crap is doing nothing but hurting Pentax as a whole:

Translation of the underlined = No FF Body From Pentax, pretty simply put. The market barely demands Pentax products now (3% market share really is nothing), does anyone actually think a FF will help Pentax in it's market share initiative?
You claim that these statements rule out the possibility of full frame, which isn't true. This isn't Pentax under Hoya. The interviews say that they're working on "full-frame technologies." My understanding of this is that they're working on the technologies needed to support full frame and considering different design possibilities. As I've said, it's too early in development for any details to be released.

Just keep waiting and it'll come...

--DragonLord
09-27-2012, 12:40 PM   #66
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Just to say that when I was making a comparison to Leica, I was talking about a picture-making machine, not a high-tech gadget. That's a design and ergonomic philosophy, where EVERY little detail is focused on the best image that can be captured with the simplest, most intuitive device that makes the process as simple as possible yet doesn't compromise the quality of the image or ease of use of controls to do so.
09-27-2012, 03:25 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by virgilr Quote
Just to say that when I was making a comparison to Leica, I was talking about a picture-making machine,
I respectfully disagree, Leica cameras are not so good, not at all, their lenses is the factor that makes the difference. On FF Nikon is the best by D3x (Dunno D4)and on APS-C nothing beats the K-5.
09-27-2012, 05:05 PM   #68
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i think it's too late now, the game is finish, no possible to catch and rewind the time.
The last chance for Pentax is create this FF for this Photokina (2012), bref, same the others Nikon (D600 & Canon 6D) and same sony with his little rx1 and others models.
All users want buy one FF is out, it's look D600 and 6D.
I think if Pentax built one FF for 2014, it's again a bigger error, the users are already switched to FF, and think's go switched.
The train is running, pentax has look this train running and ptx nothing built, too late now, time is never return backward ! if... the movie with this name .


Last edited by jpette; 09-27-2012 at 05:18 PM.
09-27-2012, 05:17 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by cbaytan Quote
Leica cameras are not so good, not at all, their lenses is the factor that makes the difference.
And the Leica lenses can only be used as intended on a Leica, so maybe there is something to the camera too. The D800 and K-5 may score better, but you cannot use Leica lenses with them, can you?

And if you want a more practical understanding of what makes the Leica camera appropriate for Leica lenses, have a look at this article. It looks at the performance of Leica lenses on a Nex-5N and on a GXR with M mount module. The GXR shows interesting advantages. Step back and consider that fixing those issues to exploit the Leica lenses was even more of a challenge for a FF sensor. That Leica sensor is much harder to build than the sensors of the D800 and K-5.

It is pointless to compare a Leica with anything else, because there is no other camera in its class today. Hopefully, Sony will come up with a FF MILC in a few years and then you can compare the Leica M with that camera and check to see on which one do the Leica lenses perform better. But we're not there yet.
09-27-2012, 07:30 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpette Quote
i think it's too late now, the game is finish, no possible to catch and rewind the time.
The last chance for Pentax is create this FF for this Photokina (2012), bref, same the others Nikon (D600 & Canon 6D) and same sony with his little rx1 and others models.
All users want buy one FF is out, it's look D600 and 6D.
I think if Pentax built one FF for 2014, it's again a bigger error, the users are already switched to FF, and think's go switched.
The train is running, pentax has look this train running and ptx nothing built, too late now, time is never return backward ! if... the movie with this name .
Pentax has always been behind the curve. Before the K-5, it was the poor SAFOX VIII AF system. Pentax has now caught up for the most part in AF and continues to offer best-in-class image quality, but is now slipping behind in movie capture and other areas. I don't think that Pentax is going to fall that far behind...

We should remember that all of the new full-frame cameras announced are not competing in the same price class as the K-5 II / K-5 IIs. The K-5 II starts from $1199 body only, about the same price as a Nikon D7000 and slightly more than a Canon EOS 60D. While the new $2099 full frame cameras may mean stiffer competition, I don't think Pentax is in imminent danger of collapse. Remember that Pentax is in the hands of a company that is much larger than Nikon and almost as large as Canon...

--DragonLord
09-28-2012, 12:48 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
the runaway success of mirrorless
I don't buy that at all, unless you want to call any old point and shoot 'mirrorless'.

When I went out on Sunday to do an afternoon's shooting at the local agricultural show I was the only one shooting mirrorless (NEX-5 + Sigma 30mm f2.8). Everyone else had camera phones, point-and-shoots, or DSLR's. Shooting in the bright afternoon sunshine also reminded me of why I hardly shoot mirrorless outdoors, since too often the screen was a washout. I like some things about mirrorless, but I can also see why it isn't going to take over the camera market anytime soon. Case in point: I still haven't seen anyone in my town shoot a gig with mirrorless, for example, and I don't know anyone who shoots landscapes with mirrorless, or birds, or sports, or studio portraits, or weddings for that matter either.

Mirrorless is still largely the domain of family snapshots and videos, street, and travel. It's a big enough market, but not the whole camera market.
09-28-2012, 12:49 AM   #72
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It's funny when someone claims that their last chance was to launch a me-too "full frame" camera, in the same time as Canon, Nikon and Sony - thus making sure it would go unnoticed.
Relax, Pentax actually have a good chance not only to survive, but also to prosper; despite (or because of) the apparently poor Photokina.
09-28-2012, 01:18 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I don't buy that at all, unless you want to call any old point and shoot 'mirrorless'.

When I went out on Sunday to do an afternoon's shooting at the local agricultural show I was the only one shooting mirrorless (NEX-5 + Sigma 30mm f2.8). Everyone else had camera phones, point-and-shoots, or DSLR's. Shooting in the bright afternoon sunshine also reminded me of why I hardly shoot mirrorless outdoors, since too often the screen was a washout. I like some things about mirrorless, but I can also see why it isn't going to take over the camera market anytime soon. Case in point: I still haven't seen anyone in my town shoot a gig with mirrorless, for example, and I don't know anyone who shoots landscapes with mirrorless, or birds, or sports, or studio portraits, or weddings for that matter either.

Mirrorless is still largely the domain of family snapshots and videos, street, and travel. It's a big enough market, but not the whole camera market.
no offense, but that just describes your town. I don't know where you live, but one city, any city, is far too small a sample. i live in NYC and NEVER see Pentax. ever. (except around my neck). see plenty of Pens and NEXes among the ubiquitous Canikons though. some even have EVFs for that sun you're talking about.

those domains you mentioned happen to be the mass market, mirrorless is the fastest growing segment in cameras right now. the pro-level mirrorless cams just debuted this year and are just starting to gain traction.
09-28-2012, 01:20 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Relax, Pentax actually have a good chance not only to survive, but also to prosper
I agree.

Look at how many times in the recent past people have gone all gloom-and-doom on Pentax, then it releases strong products like the K200D, K20D, K-5 and the 645D (and the K-x, which was a great little cam and also very popular).

Now we have good and distinctive cams like the K-30 and K-5IIs coming out, and that's not the end of the DSLR product pipeline for 2012-13 I'm sure.
09-28-2012, 01:24 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It's funny when someone claims that their last chance was to launch a me-too "full frame" camera, in the same time as Canon, Nikon and Sony - thus making sure it would go unnoticed.
Relax, Pentax actually have a good chance not only to survive, but also to prosper; despite (or because of) the apparently poor Photokina.
not sure how the K10, K20, K7 and K5 were exempt from being "me too" either...

optimism aside, why do you think Pentax have a particularly 'good' chance? just curious
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