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09-29-2012, 02:41 PM - 1 Like   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
Kunzite, I now get what you originally meant by 'cost-cutting', Ricoh is making Pentax bigger, not smaller like Hoya did. You're right, this is all theoretically very good and definitely moving in the right direction....

...however, while very encouraging, its still way too early to call anything a success yet, even (or especially) in light of Photokina 2012.
My apologies, I thought that meaning is obvious and well documented. So, I'm talking about layoffs, closing offices, selling or closing business units, reducing expenses - at company level.
OTOH, while the effects of cost cutting can usually be seen in the final products, simply reusing/sharing components can't be called cost cutting; indeed, it makes sense to reuse as much (as long as it makes sense to do so). I'm a programmer, by the way, and you know what's one of the best quality of a well written code? Reusability.
I hope my point is clear now.

Again, I didn't call anything a success; one doesn't start celebrating at the beginning of the road (I'm no exception). But you have to agree they are trying
By the way, since only 11 months passed since Ricoh bought Pentax, what we saw until now are Pentax-Hoya projects (IIRC this was admitted by Pentax officials, in one of the interviews - PF's?). Yet the lens roadmaps and their execution are proof they're serious, and when they'll also have the new cameras ready...

P.S. It's we who have to wait; Pentax is working hard in the mean time (but with a R&D which was reduced by Hoya, it takes time)
Or even better, we could enjoy what we have, until the new toys are ready.

09-29-2012, 06:30 PM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
I wish was an engineering team. I swear I would create a digital back for my K1000. I would buy such a product, as would many, if the price was right, say $500-$600. I know some people find it hard to believe, but there are some of us in the world who do not need auto focus, shake reduction, or automatic exposure modes. I just want a freakin' ff sensor I can put behind my lenses without breaking the bank. I still take out my K1000 or SF10 every once in a while, simply because I enjoy the experience of shooting with them.

In the filmmaking arena, we have upstarts like the Digital Bolex team coming up with great, low-cost solutions to problems. I wish there was someone with the wherewithal to solve this one.
I am with you on that one, since the day I saw one of the first "digital" cameras, that is the first thing that came to my mind"hey they should invent something that could be integrated into the camera backs to the film cameras, that is something I would for sure buy" I should have patented the idea to be honest......If you ask anyone I knew within the last ten~fifteen years, they would tell you that I always talked about such an idea and how someone could make a fortune on it.
I felt that whoever would invent such a thing would become an instant billionaire overnight, can you imagine all the film folks that would jump on the chance of purchasing something that would connect within seconds to their cameras and would take digital images? Heck they made the data backs, this idea would not have been that much harder to achieve. I know that I for one, would be sporting one on the back of my ME Super (awesome camera, never let me down, still works to this day)
Another idea (one which was an April fools joke in here for a while) a film cartridge that is actually integrated into a FF sensor, that actually would have been an awesome idea, one that would not have been proprietary to a certain brand or make of camera (if it is a 35mm film camera it would work)
Like you I am more like "old school" I just need a sensor.... that's all! all the other settings I can do "in camera" with my ME Super, I really dont need SR, AF, Auto WB,etc... I just need a device to capture an image in my old camera.
.....just my two cents
09-30-2012, 10:46 AM   #123
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Is There an Artificial Barrier Between Full Frame and Crop Sensor Cameras?

Read through the comments on this Petapixel blog. Some actual engineers and salesmen post here, not just a bunch of dreamers.
09-30-2012, 11:50 AM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I wouldn't really gain anything by using a full format camera with a fast 50....
You would gain a lighter lens, a cheaper lens, and about 1.5x better linear resolution.

Whether those things matter to you, or overcome the $XXX more expensive camera body, I can't say.

09-30-2012, 12:57 PM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
You would gain a lighter lens, a cheaper lens, and about 1.5x better linear resolution.

Whether those things matter to you, or overcome the $XXX more expensive camera body, I can't say.
Your quote was out of context, but I'll bite: to actually replace the 35 ltd on FF, I'd need the DFA 50, which is both more expensive and heavier (although weight isn't really and issue with any of these).
09-30-2012, 01:35 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Your quote was out of context, but I'll bite: to actually replace the 35 ltd on FF, I'd need the DFA 50, which is both more expensive and heavier (although weight isn't really and issue with any of these).
You can also get M 50/4 Macro for FF, for a closer equivalence of DA 35/2.8 (at least in aperture size).


SMC M 50/4 - 220g - 42.5mm long SMC Pentax-M 50mm F4 Macro Reviews - M Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database
DA 35/2.8 ltd - 215g - 46.5mm long SMC Pentax-DA 35mm F2.8 Limited Macro Reviews - DA Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database
09-30-2012, 01:39 PM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Your quote was out of context, but I'll bite: to actually replace the 35 ltd on FF, I'd need the DFA 50, which is both more expensive and heavier (although weight isn't really and issue with any of these).
The context was a quote that you used the 35mm like your old 50mm. You could use any 50mm for that role, like the 50mm f/1.8 (cheap) or the FA 50 1.4 (fast and cheaper than the 35mm) or, or, or...

Right?
09-30-2012, 03:19 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Is There an Artificial Barrier Between Full Frame and Crop Sensor Cameras?

Read through the comments on this Petapixel blog. Some actual engineers and salesmen post here, not just a bunch of dreamers.
There are some hilarious comments in the comments section.

This one reminds me of about 30 years ago when Bill Gates said something to the effect that 64K should be enough ram for anyone.

QuoteQuote:
APS-C, or even 4/3, are large enough sensors for most of us,


09-30-2012, 04:25 PM - 1 Like   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
The size of the FF market would easily eclipse that of the 645D market, which Pentax remains committed to.
Sure, but 645D does not have to compete with Canon and Nikon... at least not directly in the same class of cameras.

For DSLR, probably more so with FF DSLR, a mere competent offering from Pentax would not be enough to compete with Canon and NIkon.
Just look at K-5 and brand new K-30. They are solid cameras on paper, and they can stand on its own against most competing cameras.
But that's not good enough, and they failed to make a dent in the sales chart.

I suppose they can try to compete with small size and low price, but that would rob them of the healthy profit margin that they sorely need.

Regardless, a FF camera, as tough a market as it can face, still makes more sense than the Q.
09-30-2012, 05:02 PM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
There are some hilarious comments in the comments section.

This one reminds me of about 30 years ago when Bill Gates said something to the effect that 64K should be enough ram for anyone.
It was 640K. When he said that in 1981 it was 10 times what you had in CP/M. It didn't become a problem until he tried to hack a GUI on top of DOS.
09-30-2012, 05:06 PM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
It was 640K. When he said that in 1981 it was 10 times what you had in CP/M. It didn't become a problem until he tried to hack a GUI on top of DOS.
I have slept a couple of times since 1981.
09-30-2012, 05:16 PM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Sure, but 645D does not have to compete with Canon and Nikon... at least not directly in the same class of cameras.
.
Pentax has to compete with Sony as well. There is only a limited supply of FF sensors. You can only fit about 60 Ff sensors on a 300mm wafer, the same wafer will fit 160 APS-C sensors. Not every sensor on the wafer will be of high enough quality to be installed in a camera. It is not likely that Sony will be producing enough FF sensors for Pentax to get in on the action. Pentax could go to a boutique CMOS manufacturer like Leica did, but then you would end up with a camera that costs as much as the Leica M. At that point you might as well get a 645D.
09-30-2012, 05:54 PM   #133
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Pentax's demand for FF sensors would be a mere fraction of a fraction of what Nikon and Sony itself need.
09-30-2012, 06:06 PM   #134
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I can't add anything to this discussion from a Pentax perspective, but I would like to add that from a Ricoh perspective it makes absolute sense for them to release a new module for the modular GXR system, a full frame M mount specific system.

Currently Ricoh is the only manufacturer other than Leica of digital M mount digital camera units. They would sell every single full frame module they could produce, without a shadow of a doubt, were they to release a full frame M module.

If they can do it for APS-C and M lenses, already a challenging mix, I believe they can do it for full frame sensors with M lenses. Extrapolating that logic, if you can make M lenses which have a short back focal length work with full frame sensors, making K mount lenses work well on digital full frame sensors is relative child's play. Maybe.

I just wanted to throw the Ricoh GXR angle out there.

Sony's RX1 has also upped the ante in the compact market too. Ricoh and Pentax having nothing to lose in this area could be a welcome maverick.

/speculation mode off
10-01-2012, 04:00 AM   #135
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It'd certainly be easy - INCREDIBLY easy - to come up with a better sensor'd camera for less $ than the leica.
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