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bwDraco · 09-23-2012, 01:31 PM

Likely status of full-frame development based on the rumors and responses in several interviews (especially this one):

Pentax Ricoh is in the planning and design stage of developing a full-frame camera. It is currently too early for any prototypes or mockups to be released because they are far from final, awaiting further R&D and continuing evaluation of market conditions and feedback from users. Pentax has encountered several technical challenges during this process and is working on solutions to them. A completed product should not be expected until at least 2014, but full frame is a work in progress and it is probably only a matter of time before an announcement of some sort is made.

Remember that as stated at the end of the official Pentax Forums interview, Ricoh's product development process relies heavily on customer feedback, unlike Pentax under Hoya. As far as I know, the rather unimpressive announcements at Photokina this year represent the last products in which Hoya was involved. As the remainder of Hoya's roadmap has now been executed, we should look forward to a new future for Pentax.

Bear in mind the words of a fellow Pentaxian, @monochrome:

Originally posted by monochrome:

Be of good cheer, Pentaxians. Ricoh has a plan and you will be happy!

--DragonLord

Edit: See also this Photo Rumors post.

Last edited by bwDraco; 09-23-2012 at 01:51 PM.

alamo5000 · 09-23-2012, 02:24 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by DragonLord

continuing evaluation of market conditions and feedback from users.

Key words in the whole thing.

I say make a camera that looks and feels like the K-5 with better AF and other wigits and whatnots but give it a Full Frame sensor.

While they are working on that body, they need to be working on those lenses too, if not merely ressurecting old ones and updating them with modern features.

To me, 75% of the work is done. That extra 25% is not 'that hard'.... ponying up the cash to invest in it... that is yet another story. That is the hard part in today's economy.

bwDraco · 09-23-2012, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by alamo5000

To me, 75% of the work is done. That extra 25% is not 'that hard'.... ponying up the cash to invest in it... that is yet another story. That is the hard part in today's economy.

I can't agree with you here. Remember that Hoya was completely closed to the possibility of full frame. We just reached the end of Hoya's roadmap, and it's exceedingly unlikely that work on the full-frame camera began before Ricoh had acquired Pentax. Ricoh had less than a year so far to work on it, and from what I can tell, the project is still in its earliest stages. Two years is the most realistic timeframe I can give.

--DragonLord

**Aristophanes** · 09-23-2012, 02:38 PM

The design and specs of the camera body are largely irrelevant for a DSLR.

It's the cost/availability/performance of the sensor that matters.

For Pentax, as a value brand, any FF body with a sensor of at least Sony o equal performance, must come in at MSRP below US$2,000 to make enough market share inroads to be viable.

alamo5000 · 09-23-2012, 02:40 PM

Year? Not even close...

6 months at best.

Q&A with Pentax’s John Carlson and Genichiro Takaoka: Is full-frame coming, and what’s next for medium format? - Imaging Resource

"Genichiro Takaoka/Pentax Ricoh Imaging Co., Ltd.: Yes, we are just joining the Ricoh engineers from the first of April to collaborate on some of the projects. We’ve just started."

That's less than 6 months on the job. Just because they announced the take over a year ago doesn't mean it was done a year ago. It might have been approved a year ago even, but even then, it takes a long time to mesh companies together. Trust me. I've been there.

bwDraco · 09-23-2012, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by alamo5000

Year? Not even close...

6 months at best.

Q&A with Pentax’s John Carlson and Genichiro Takaoka: Is full-frame coming, and what’s next for medium format? - Imaging Resource

"Genichiro Takaoka/Pentax Ricoh Imaging Co., Ltd.: Yes, we are just joining the Ricoh engineers from the first of April to collaborate on some of the projects. We’ve just started."

That's less than 6 months on the job. Just because they announced the take over a year ago doesn't mean it was done a year ago. It might have been approved a year ago even, but even then, it takes a long time to mesh companies together. Trust me. I've been there.

That's my point. Ricoh only recently started working on full frame.

--DragonLord

**RobA_Oz** · 09-23-2012, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by DragonLord

That's my point. Ricoh only recently started working on full frame.

--DragonLord

The point that, I think, Adam made about the *istD having been intended for a 35mm sensor, sticks in my mind. I have a *istD (for which I paid a lot of money, and which walked all over the Canon competitor at the time) and my point is that it is tiny compared with the K20D, or even a K-5. So, if that's true, not only does a FF Pentax not have to be monstrous, but there must be a fair bit of corporate knowledge to be drawn on from within the company, even so long after the event.

**boriscleto** · 09-23-2012, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

The point that, I think, Adam made about the *istD having been intended for a 35mm sensor, sticks in my mind. I have a *istD (for which I paid a lot of money, and which walked all over the Canon competitor at the time) and my point is that it is tiny compared with the K20D, or even a K-5. So, if that's true, not only does a FF Pentax not have to be monstrous, but there must be a fair bit of corporate knowledge to be drawn on from within the company, even so long after the event.

The *istD didn't have to make room for a stabilization system.

**RobA_Oz** · 09-23-2012, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

The *istD didn't have to make room for a stabilization system.

No, I can see that, but I recall seeing the cutaway of the K-5 from Photokina, and wondering if the stabilisation system is positioned behind or around the sensor. Either way, it would add to the room required for the sensor, so the only question is "by how much?".

Vylen · 09-23-2012, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

No, I can see that, but I recall seeing the cutaway of the K-5 from Photokina, and wondering if the stabilisation system is positioned behind or around the sensor. Either way, it would add to the room required for the sensor, so the only question is "by how much?".

The SR is always around the sensor... putting it behind it would probably be a bad idea (electromagnets and all that).

Buschmaster · 09-23-2012, 04:43 PM

So is the assumption that a FF Pentax wouldn't have SR? And that's how the size would be similarish to a K-5?

Laurentiu Cristofor · 09-23-2012, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by DragonLord

Pentax Ricoh is in the planning and design stage of developing a full-frame camera.

Great, but if that is all they are doing, they will fail. They need to offer something else than a FF camera and incremental updates to the existing product line, if they'll want to stay afloat.

**RuiC** · 09-23-2012, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by Vylen

The SR is always around the sensor... putting it behind it would probably be a bad idea (electromagnets and all that).

The newst SR mechanism is supported only on two sides not on all four. So It's much smaller.

Vylen · 09-23-2012, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by RuiC

The newst SR mechanism is supported only on two sides not on all four. So It's much smaller.

Which new one may that be? The K-5 and K30 have the coils on the left, right and bottom sides of the sensor.

**monochrome** · 09-23-2012, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by RuiC

The newst SR mechanism is supported only on two sides not on all four. So It's much smaller.

Originally posted by Vylen

Which new one may that be? The K-5 and K30 have the coils on the left, right and bottom sides of the sensor.

The K-01 has a smaller, lighter SR sensor rack using magnets on two sides rather than four.

09-23-2012, 01:31 PM	#1
bwDraco Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New York Photos: Albums Posts: 1,071	My interpretation of the full-frame rumors and interview responses... Likely status of full-frame development based on the rumors and responses in several interviews (especially this one): Pentax Ricoh is in the planning and design stage of developing a full-frame camera. It is currently too early for any prototypes or mockups to be released because they are far from final, awaiting further R&D and continuing evaluation of market conditions and feedback from users. Pentax has encountered several technical challenges during this process and is working on solutions to them. A completed product should not be expected until at least 2014, but full frame is a work in progress and it is probably only a matter of time before an announcement of some sort is made. Remember that as stated at the end of the official Pentax Forums interview, Ricoh's product development process relies heavily on customer feedback, unlike Pentax under Hoya. As far as I know, the rather unimpressive announcements at Photokina this year represent the last products in which Hoya was involved. As the remainder of Hoya's roadmap has now been executed, we should look forward to a new future for Pentax. Bear in mind the words of a fellow Pentaxian, @monochrome: Originally posted by monochrome: Be of good cheer, Pentaxians. Ricoh has a plan and you will be happy! --DragonLord Edit: See also this Photo Rumors post. Last edited by bwDraco; 09-23-2012 at 01:51 PM.

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09-23-2012, 02:24 PM - 1 Like	#2
alamo5000 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2,962	Originally posted by DragonLord continuing evaluation of market conditions and feedback from users. Key words in the whole thing. I say make a camera that looks and feels like the K-5 with better AF and other wigits and whatnots but give it a Full Frame sensor. While they are working on that body, they need to be working on those lenses too, if not merely ressurecting old ones and updating them with modern features. To me, 75% of the work is done. That extra 25% is not 'that hard'.... ponying up the cash to invest in it... that is yet another story. That is the hard part in today's economy.

09-23-2012, 02:33 PM	#3
bwDraco Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New York Photos: Albums Posts: 1,071 Original Poster	Originally posted by alamo5000 To me, 75% of the work is done. That extra 25% is not 'that hard'.... ponying up the cash to invest in it... that is yet another story. That is the hard part in today's economy. I can't agree with you here. Remember that Hoya was completely closed to the possibility of full frame. We just reached the end of Hoya's roadmap, and it's exceedingly unlikely that work on the full-frame camera began before Ricoh had acquired Pentax. Ricoh had less than a year so far to work on it, and from what I can tell, the project is still in its earliest stages. Two years is the most realistic timeframe I can give. --DragonLord

09-23-2012, 02:38 PM	#4
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	The design and specs of the camera body are largely irrelevant for a DSLR. It's the cost/availability/performance of the sensor that matters. For Pentax, as a value brand, any FF body with a sensor of at least Sony o equal performance, must come in at MSRP below US$2,000 to make enough market share inroads to be viable.

09-23-2012, 02:40 PM	#5
alamo5000 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2,962	Year? Not even close... 6 months at best. Q&A with Pentax’s John Carlson and Genichiro Takaoka: Is full-frame coming, and what’s next for medium format? - Imaging Resource "Genichiro Takaoka/Pentax Ricoh Imaging Co., Ltd.: Yes, we are just joining the Ricoh engineers from the first of April to collaborate on some of the projects. We’ve just started." That's less than 6 months on the job. Just because they announced the take over a year ago doesn't mean it was done a year ago. It might have been approved a year ago even, but even then, it takes a long time to mesh companies together. Trust me. I've been there.

09-23-2012, 03:02 PM	#6
bwDraco Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New York Photos: Albums Posts: 1,071 Original Poster	Originally posted by alamo5000 Year? Not even close... 6 months at best. Q&A with Pentax’s John Carlson and Genichiro Takaoka: Is full-frame coming, and what’s next for medium format? - Imaging Resource "Genichiro Takaoka/Pentax Ricoh Imaging Co., Ltd.: Yes, we are just joining the Ricoh engineers from the first of April to collaborate on some of the projects. We’ve just started." That's less than 6 months on the job. Just because they announced the take over a year ago doesn't mean it was done a year ago. It might have been approved a year ago even, but even then, it takes a long time to mesh companies together. Trust me. I've been there. That's my point. Ricoh only recently started working on full frame. --DragonLord

09-23-2012, 03:17 PM	#7
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,209	Originally posted by DragonLord That's my point. Ricoh only recently started working on full frame. --DragonLord The point that, I think, Adam made about the istD having been intended for a 35mm sensor, sticks in my mind. I have a istD (for which I paid a lot of money, and which walked all over the Canon competitor at the time) and my point is that it is tiny compared with the K20D, or even a K-5. So, if that's true, not only does a FF Pentax not have to be monstrous, but there must be a fair bit of corporate knowledge to be drawn on from within the company, even so long after the event.

09-23-2012, 03:24 PM	#8
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,477	Originally posted by RobA_Oz The point that, I think, Adam made about the istD having been intended for a 35mm sensor, sticks in my mind. I have a istD (for which I paid a lot of money, and which walked all over the Canon competitor at the time) and my point is that it is tiny compared with the K20D, or even a K-5. So, if that's true, not only does a FF Pentax not have to be monstrous, but there must be a fair bit of corporate knowledge to be drawn on from within the company, even so long after the event. The *istD didn't have to make room for a stabilization system.

09-23-2012, 03:29 PM	#9
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,209	Originally posted by boriscleto The *istD didn't have to make room for a stabilization system. No, I can see that, but I recall seeing the cutaway of the K-5 from Photokina, and wondering if the stabilisation system is positioned behind or around the sensor. Either way, it would add to the room required for the sensor, so the only question is "by how much?".

09-23-2012, 03:31 PM	#10
Vylen Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,262	Originally posted by RobA_Oz No, I can see that, but I recall seeing the cutaway of the K-5 from Photokina, and wondering if the stabilisation system is positioned behind or around the sensor. Either way, it would add to the room required for the sensor, so the only question is "by how much?". The SR is always around the sensor... putting it behind it would probably be a bad idea (electromagnets and all that).

09-23-2012, 04:43 PM	#11
Buschmaster Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 806	So is the assumption that a FF Pentax wouldn't have SR? And that's how the size would be similarish to a K-5?

09-23-2012, 05:07 PM	#12
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Originally posted by DragonLord Pentax Ricoh is in the planning and design stage of developing a full-frame camera. Great, but if that is all they are doing, they will fail. They need to offer something else than a FF camera and incremental updates to the existing product line, if they'll want to stay afloat.

09-23-2012, 05:08 PM	#13
RuiC Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lisboa - The best destination in Europe Posts: 633	Originally posted by Vylen The SR is always around the sensor... putting it behind it would probably be a bad idea (electromagnets and all that). The newst SR mechanism is supported only on two sides not on all four. So It's much smaller.

09-23-2012, 05:12 PM	#14
Vylen Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,262	Originally posted by RuiC The newst SR mechanism is supported only on two sides not on all four. So It's much smaller. Which new one may that be? The K-5 and K30 have the coils on the left, right and bottom sides of the sensor.

09-23-2012, 06:37 PM	#15
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by RuiC The newst SR mechanism is supported only on two sides not on all four. So It's much smaller. Originally posted by Vylen Which new one may that be? The K-5 and K30 have the coils on the left, right and bottom sides of the sensor. The K-01 has a smaller, lighter SR sensor rack using magnets on two sides rather than four.

My interpretation of the full-frame rumors and interview responses...

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