My interpretation of the full-frame rumors and interview responses...

noVICE · 09-24-2012, 04:01 AM

I think many of us are forgetting one side to the production of a FF camera and that is the competition. Pentoh has well behind the pace with FF and to catch up to where the competitors are NOW is going to take time. The problem is that "in time" the competitors will have further developed their systems and so what Pentoh need to do is create a FF that will not only go toe-to-toe with Canikon, but will actually draw interest (and hopefully users) from their competition. There is little point having a flagship camera (excluding MF for a moment here) that is going to give Pentax a bad image in the market place. I think that patience is what we need right now.

Personally I want Pentoh to still pump a ton of R'n'D into APS-C, because that is where most of us will get the benefits.

Katier · 09-24-2012, 05:45 AM

I agree that the concentration needs to be in APS-C. I like the K-01 in principle and with an EVF would provide a great alternative to a entry level DSLR. More compact than the competition, probably better feature set, takes DSLR lenses.. but NEEDS an add-on EVF (and better AF).

K-30 and K-5 lines are clearly strong strategies and strong 'shooter' cameras which is what Pentax is ( and IMO their USP should be) about. All weather, compact, high quality, dependable stills cameras.

FF is needed in order to be 'in with the Jonese' but it should share as much tech with the 645 and APS-C lines as possible such that it is competitive with the competition but doesn't drain too much on R&D for the important APS-C and 645 lines.

**RuiC** · 09-24-2012, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by Vylen

Which new one may that be? The K-5 and K30 have the coils on the left, right and bottom sides of the sensor.

Originally posted by monochrome

The K-01 has a smaller, lighter SR sensor rack using magnets on two sides rather than four.

Quote: " ... With this structure, only a single guide bar needs to be provided for at least one of the first table and the second table, which makes it possible to simplify the image shake correction apparatus and also to achieve miniaturization thereof. ... " eoq

United States Patent: 8208032

cbaytan · 09-25-2012, 06:31 AM

Originally posted by noVICE

I think many of us are forgetting one side to the production of a FF camera

In the interview Pentax guy clearly says to dpreview guy "There are technical problems, issues on FF design". I suspect that it's the floating FF sensor for the SR. That will be the first one in the industry, if it will be ever happened. They couldn't make it with 645D, letsee what happens on the FF side.

At this time Nikon converted K-5's competitor D7000 as an FF camera in no time, labeled as D600 if I am not mistaken.

asw66 · 09-25-2012, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by Caat

Ricoh will hopefully change this but a me-too FF camera is not the answer. Nikon and Canon will most likely already be in the compact sub-$2000 FF camera market by the time Pentax launches. Pentax needs to turn up early - or at least on time - for once.

While I certainly agree with your comments about Pentax's need to stay timely with respect to their big competitors, I'd say that a "me too" sub 2K FF body would be just the ticket. A K5 is arguably a "me too" D7000, is it not? And yet we would insist (rightly, I think) that the K5 is a much better body than the D7000, despite the superficial similarity of specifications.

photoephemere · 09-25-2012, 10:12 AM

No stress ... ;-) ff will come ... ;-)

KungPOW · 09-25-2012, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by cbaytan

In the interview Pentax guy clearly says to dpreview guy "There are technical problems, issues on FF design". I suspect that it's the floating FF sensor for the SR. That will be the first one in the industry, if it will be ever happened. They couldn't make it with 645D, letsee what happens on the FF side.

At this time Nikon converted K-5's competitor D7000 as an FF camera in no time, labeled as D600 if I am not mistaken.

Sorry, Sony got there first with the A900.

And I think it is an understatement to call a D600 a D700 with a FF sensor.

Nikon's advantage here is that they have made a number of FF cameras already. Nikon, Canon, Sony, all know how to make a FF camera. Pentax, is still sorting out their house after the second move in two years.

Zygonyx · 09-25-2012, 12:51 PM

On this last point, i agree KungPOW.

Regarding your first post, i don't : let's exchange in 1,5 years from now on, an see the new productlines.

cbaytan · 09-25-2012, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by KungPOW

And I think it is an understatement to call a D600 a D700 with a FF sensor.

.

"The Nikon D600 is essentially the D7000 with a larger sensor, reflex mirror and viewfinder prism added."

From:
Nikon D600 versus D7000

I know it's Ken Rockwell but there are more backing opinions on the web, Like this:

You Tube

I am not into Nikon, I woulnd't know the truth by myself.

ogl · 09-25-2012, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by DragonLord

Pentax has encountered several technical challenges during this process and is working on solutions to them. A completed product should not be expected until at least 2014,

--DragonLord

Edit: See also this Photo Rumors post.

Yes. And it will be expensive high-end camera. Not D600 level.

cbaytan · 09-25-2012, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by ogl

Yes. And it will be expensive high-end camera. Not D600 level.

Now, how do you know that ogl? It's even on the designing process.

But yes I accept if an FF would ever be produced Pentax have to have a point and impact among other FF's, just like K-5 has. Or it's not will be noticed and will not reached to selling volume hence won't be profitable in the narrow FF market. BUT! only loyal Pentax users will be happy with that, We will shut up!

ogl · 09-25-2012, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by cbaytan

Now, how do you know that ogl? It's even on the designing process.

But yes I accept if an FF would ever be produced Pentax have to have a point and impact among other FF's. Or it's not will be noticed and will not reached to selling volume hence won't be profitable in the narrow FF market. BUT! only loyal Pentax users will be happy with that, we will shut up!

I know it from this interview
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/200179-one-more-interv...n-english.html

I've tried D800, 5D MkIII in camera shop yesterday and I'd say - I don't want such FF body...I'd prefer something not bigger than K20D body...
Hope for compact FF body from Pentax.

Edvinas · 09-26-2012, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by boriscleto

The *istD didn't have to make room for a stabilization system.

I would be more than happy to ditch SR for thinner camera. My shooting style and themes don't really require SR, in fact it more often hinders than helps (in my case, of course).

cbaytan · 09-26-2012, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by ogl

I'd prefer something not bigger than K20D body... Hope for compact FF body from Pentax.

My guess is a smaller FF than it's rivals with an additional floating sensor inside for SR is not very likely.

lytrytyr · 09-26-2012, 07:31 AM

If Pentax needed lenses with a large image circle
to cover full frame in-body shake reduction,
they could tap in to the 645 line (current and legacy).

The larger size of those lenses
would match the larger size of an FF SR body.

For UWA, they could do a rigid version
of something like the Canon 17mm TS.

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09-24-2012, 04:01 AM	#31
noVICE Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Brisbane Photos: Gallery Posts: 164	I think many of us are forgetting one side to the production of a FF camera and that is the competition. Pentoh has well behind the pace with FF and to catch up to where the competitors are NOW is going to take time. The problem is that "in time" the competitors will have further developed their systems and so what Pentoh need to do is create a FF that will not only go toe-to-toe with Canikon, but will actually draw interest (and hopefully users) from their competition. There is little point having a flagship camera (excluding MF for a moment here) that is going to give Pentax a bad image in the market place. I think that patience is what we need right now. Personally I want Pentoh to still pump a ton of R'n'D into APS-C, because that is where most of us will get the benefits.

09-24-2012, 05:45 AM	#32
Katier Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 72	I agree that the concentration needs to be in APS-C. I like the K-01 in principle and with an EVF would provide a great alternative to a entry level DSLR. More compact than the competition, probably better feature set, takes DSLR lenses.. but NEEDS an add-on EVF (and better AF). K-30 and K-5 lines are clearly strong strategies and strong 'shooter' cameras which is what Pentax is ( and IMO their USP should be) about. All weather, compact, high quality, dependable stills cameras. FF is needed in order to be 'in with the Jonese' but it should share as much tech with the 645 and APS-C lines as possible such that it is competitive with the competition but doesn't drain too much on R&D for the important APS-C and 645 lines.

09-24-2012, 07:21 AM	#33
RuiC Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lisboa - The best destination in Europe Posts: 633	Originally posted by Vylen Which new one may that be? The K-5 and K30 have the coils on the left, right and bottom sides of the sensor. Originally posted by monochrome The K-01 has a smaller, lighter SR sensor rack using magnets on two sides rather than four. Quote: " ... With this structure, only a single guide bar needs to be provided for at least one of the first table and the second table, which makes it possible to simplify the image shake correction apparatus and also to achieve miniaturization thereof. ... " eoq United States Patent: 8208032

09-25-2012, 06:31 AM	#34
cbaytan Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trabzon/Turkey Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,010	Originally posted by noVICE I think many of us are forgetting one side to the production of a FF camera In the interview Pentax guy clearly says to dpreview guy "There are technical problems, issues on FF design". I suspect that it's the floating FF sensor for the SR. That will be the first one in the industry, if it will be ever happened. They couldn't make it with 645D, letsee what happens on the FF side. At this time Nikon converted K-5's competitor D7000 as an FF camera in no time, labeled as D600 if I am not mistaken.

09-25-2012, 07:14 AM	#35
asw66 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 347	Originally posted by Caat Ricoh will hopefully change this but a me-too FF camera is not the answer. Nikon and Canon will most likely already be in the compact sub-$2000 FF camera market by the time Pentax launches. Pentax needs to turn up early - or at least on time - for once. While I certainly agree with your comments about Pentax's need to stay timely with respect to their big competitors, I'd say that a "me too" sub 2K FF body would be just the ticket. A K5 is arguably a "me too" D7000, is it not? And yet we would insist (rightly, I think) that the K5 is a much better body than the D7000, despite the superficial similarity of specifications.

09-25-2012, 10:12 AM	#36
photoephemere Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Near from Paris Photos: Albums Posts: 38	No stress ... ;-) ff will come ... ;-)

09-25-2012, 10:36 AM	#37
KungPOW Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Vancouver, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,699	Originally posted by cbaytan In the interview Pentax guy clearly says to dpreview guy "There are technical problems, issues on FF design". I suspect that it's the floating FF sensor for the SR. That will be the first one in the industry, if it will be ever happened. They couldn't make it with 645D, letsee what happens on the FF side. At this time Nikon converted K-5's competitor D7000 as an FF camera in no time, labeled as D600 if I am not mistaken. Sorry, Sony got there first with the A900. And I think it is an understatement to call a D600 a D700 with a FF sensor. Nikon's advantage here is that they have made a number of FF cameras already. Nikon, Canon, Sony, all know how to make a FF camera. Pentax, is still sorting out their house after the second move in two years.

09-25-2012, 12:51 PM	#38
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	On this last point, i agree KungPOW. Regarding your first post, i don't : let's exchange in 1,5 years from now on, an see the new productlines.

09-25-2012, 10:00 PM	#40
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by DragonLord Pentax has encountered several technical challenges during this process and is working on solutions to them. A completed product should not be expected until at least 2014, --DragonLord Edit: See also this Photo Rumors post. Yes. And it will be expensive high-end camera. Not D600 level.

09-25-2012, 11:12 PM	#41
cbaytan Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trabzon/Turkey Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,010	Originally posted by ogl Yes. And it will be expensive high-end camera. Not D600 level. Now, how do you know that ogl? It's even on the designing process. But yes I accept if an FF would ever be produced Pentax have to have a point and impact among other FF's, just like K-5 has. Or it's not will be noticed and will not reached to selling volume hence won't be profitable in the narrow FF market. BUT! only loyal Pentax users will be happy with that, We will shut up!

09-25-2012, 11:13 PM	#42
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by cbaytan Now, how do you know that ogl? It's even on the designing process. But yes I accept if an FF would ever be produced Pentax have to have a point and impact among other FF's. Or it's not will be noticed and will not reached to selling volume hence won't be profitable in the narrow FF market. BUT! only loyal Pentax users will be happy with that, we will shut up! I know it from this interview https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/200179-one-more-interv...n-english.html I've tried D800, 5D MkIII in camera shop yesterday and I'd say - I don't want such FF body...I'd prefer something not bigger than K20D body... Hope for compact FF body from Pentax.

09-26-2012, 12:31 AM	#43
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458	Originally posted by boriscleto The *istD didn't have to make room for a stabilization system. I would be more than happy to ditch SR for thinner camera. My shooting style and themes don't really require SR, in fact it more often hinders than helps (in my case, of course).

09-26-2012, 01:12 AM	#44
cbaytan Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trabzon/Turkey Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,010	Originally posted by ogl I'd prefer something not bigger than K20D body... Hope for compact FF body from Pentax. My guess is a smaller FF than it's rivals with an additional floating sensor inside for SR is not very likely.

09-26-2012, 07:31 AM	#45
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	If Pentax needed lenses with a large image circle to cover full frame in-body shake reduction, they could tap in to the 645 line (current and legacy). The larger size of those lenses would match the larger size of an FF SR body. For UWA, they could do a rigid version of something like the Canon 17mm TS.