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10-30-2012, 05:39 PM   #331
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
Except that it doesn't become anything on a different format. A 50 is a 50 is a 50 no matter the format. You are talking nonsense.
I'll say it in stupid terms for you so you can understand. A 50 is only called a 50 because it's a 50 on 35mm, but put it on an APS-C it zooms forward, on a medium format it zooms backwards, this called crop factor and this crop factor is measured by 35mm... I don't think I can say it any simple than that...

10-30-2012, 05:45 PM   #332
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QuoteOriginally posted by bmonki Quote
I'll say it in stupid terms for you so you can understand. A 50 is only called a 50 because it's a 50 on 35mm, but put it on an APS-C it zooms forward, on a medium format it zooms backwards, this called crop factor and this crop factor is measured by 35mm... I don't think I can say it any simple than that...
I respectfully suggest that you read the following Wikipedia article before commenting further on this subject: Crop factor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by RBellavance; 10-30-2012 at 05:56 PM.
10-30-2012, 05:50 PM   #333
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QuoteOriginally posted by bmonki Quote
I'll say it in stupid terms for you so you can understand. A 50 is only called a 50 because it's a 50 on 35mm, but put it on an APS-C it zooms forward, on a medium format it zooms backwards, this called crop factor and this crop factor is measured by 35mm... I don't think I can say it any simple than that...
It is not often that someone who is so wrong, starts their post by calling someone else stupid.

maybe you need to read up on what you claim to be an expert on?
10-30-2012, 05:56 PM   #334
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QuoteOriginally posted by bmonki Quote
I'll say it in stupid terms for you so you can understand. A 50 is only called a 50 because it's a 50 on 35mm,
You probably shouldn't be so impolite when you're wrong. A 50mm is always a 50mm, because a millimeter is always a millimeter.

10-30-2012, 06:00 PM   #335
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QuoteOriginally posted by bmonki Quote
Your smarter than your own good my friend... If a lens says 50 on it and it becomes a 25 or 30 on medium format or a 75 on an APS-C it means 35mm is the standard. 35mm/FF has the lenses that a professional needs in the field I plan on going too. Like I said you can always do the math but most lenses are built with FF in mind therefore making FF/35mm the standard. Just because photographers adopted the format from film users doesn't mean it's not correct. You can throw equations and facts all day but when it comes down to it the fact is 35mm is the standard that most lenses are built around, deal with it... so that makes 35mm the standard format which all lenses are measured by... Just like I wish the US was on the metric system, it made things very complicated when I was working on air craft for the air force, you gotta have a standard format and that format is 35mm/FF...
The only time that I know that MF or LF lenses are compared to your "standard" 35mm lens is for people, usually new to the format, can determine which focal lengths they would be interested in, especially as the aspect ratio of almost any format is different, 4X5, 8X10 and 16X20 are the same but how many formats have a 4 to 5 aspect.

If you were to buy a Pentax 645 or 67 lens plus adapter and put that lens on your Pentax film or digital camera the focal length that is written on the lens for 645 or 67 will be the exact same focal length on your film or digital slr. Rent a couple of view cameras and one lens, say a 210mm lens and a 4X5 and 5X7. Mount the lens on the 4X5 and measure the distance from the lens' nodal point to the ground glass; it will be 210mm. Now mount the lens on a 5X7 and do the same and the measurement will be .......210mm. Now put a 35mm lens on a film camera and take two images on film. Have the film developed and cut out from the centre of one of them the size of a cropped sensor. The original images were both shot at the same distance and focus hence the lens in both cases is a 35mm lens. The coverage changes but the focal length will not. The older American made LF lenses are measured in inches and preceded 35mm lenses as well.

It is very common for people to compare the coverage of a lens from two different formats and in doing so it is usually the 35mm that is used as it had become the most common especially with non pros and I doubt any pros needed to compare their MF or LF lenses to 35mm in order to understand what was wide angle and what was a long lens. Car performance is some times given in quarter mile which was a standard length of some horse races.

Pentax DA and Nikon DX lenses were not built around 35mm nor were any of the MF or LF lenses. That they are still the most common for most people is true but it is also true that the focal length of a lens does not change no matter what format you put it on and going a little farther that if you put it on a MF lens it would not have the coverage that is needed to cover the sensor or the film. Not one of the MF digital cameras that I know of have a "full frame" sensor compared to their film predessors and yet I have not really read MF digital users always having to calculate the equivalence of their lens for the cropped sensor. A 35mm lens is normal on my digital and wide on my film Pentax and I do not have to figure it out.

You are arguing one thing and using some thing else to back it up and your back up to your point is incorrect. Focal length does not change. Field of view does

Last edited by redrockcoulee; 10-30-2012 at 06:48 PM. Reason: correcting a typo
10-30-2012, 06:08 PM - 1 Like   #336
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QuoteOriginally posted by bmonki Quote
I'll say it in stupid terms for you so you can understand. A 50 is only called a 50 because it's a 50 on 35mm, but put it on an APS-C it zooms forward, on a medium format it zooms backwards, this called crop factor and this crop factor is measured by 35mm... I don't think I can say it any simple than that...
mission accomplished... you appear to have mastered stupidity... and demonstrated that brilliantly.
10-30-2012, 06:52 PM   #337
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QuoteOriginally posted by bmonki Quote
I'll say it in stupid terms for you so you can understand. A 50 is only called a 50 because it's a 50 on 35mm, but put it on an APS-C it zooms forward, on a medium format it zooms backwards, this called crop factor and this crop factor is measured by 35mm... I don't think I can say it any simple than that...
I know that you've already been embarrassed enough by the previous responses pointing out your cluelessness, but since this was directed at me I'll just note also that I already understand, and it seems just about everybody else does also except for you. A 50mm is called a 50mm because that is the focal length of the lens, and it doesn't change. If you never put it on any camera at all, it is still a 50mm.
10-30-2012, 07:13 PM   #338
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OK, I think we've flogged that horse enough now. Let's move on and talk about how 50mm on a FF looks as opposed to how it does on APS-C... for the millionth time...

10-30-2012, 07:28 PM   #339
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A buddy used this analogy:

Flog a BMW M3 around Lime Rock in a Rolex/GT Grand Am Race
Flog a Porsche 911 GT3 around Lime Rock in a Rolex/GT Grand Am Race

One is front-engine, one is rear-engine. On any given day either can win the Class. Ending the 2012 season the manufacturers finished 7 points apart.

Which is "normal?" Which is "Pro?" Which is a "compromise"? Which gives "better" racing?

Discuss amongst yourselves.
10-30-2012, 08:13 PM   #340
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QuoteOriginally posted by bmonki Quote
I want to make a business doing food and restaurant photography which will require me to have a wide angle tilt shift lens
? Why 'require'? Many food (or restaurant) photographers don't use tilt-shift. It might come in handy, like a lot of gear, but it doesn't seem 'required'.

But there is Pentax tilt-shift hardware - there are several fine TS Schneiders for Pentax, plus the new Samyang T-S 24mm 1:3.5 ED AS UMC is coming soon for K-mount, and some of the LensBabys will do the job.

Anyway, it's 2012 - who needs TS hardware anymore. You can do all this in software now with stuff like DxO Optics Pro and/or Photoshop
10-31-2012, 05:35 AM   #341
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For those who want to learn more about why 43mm is a "normal" focal length with what happened to be the most popular film size (and now bears the rather misleading name "full frame") and how cameras and human eyes relate, this is IMHO a pretty nice article: Cameras vs. The Human Eye
10-31-2012, 05:38 AM   #342
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Samyang T-S 24mm 1:3.5 ED AS UMC is coming soon for K-mount
How soon or how far into the future will this one hit the shelfs? The price should also prove interesting, but at least it will be better than the 560
10-31-2012, 05:58 AM   #343
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QuoteOriginally posted by Medium FormatPro Quote
How soon or how far into the future will this one hit the shelfs?
It was announced in Photokina in September. "Samyang T-S 24mm f/3.5 ED AS UMC will be available later this year in the following mounts; Canon EF, Nikon F, Pentax and Sony A. Pricing is to be announced."

The product page for this lens on the SamYang UK site is here.

3 years warranty too in the UK. In Australia Pentax only gives us 1 year on lenses.
10-31-2012, 08:13 AM   #344
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
3 years warranty too in the UK. In Australia Pentax only gives us 1 year on lenses.
I wonder if Pentax is worried that you guys will drop a giant can of Foster's on the lens?
10-31-2012, 09:08 AM   #345
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
drop a giant can of Foster's on the lens?
Australians are largely wine and cider drinkers nowadays, so little risk of that ...
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