FF Under Development

jakeblues · 10-31-2012, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

A 50mm is called a 50mm because that is the focal length of the lens, and it doesn't change. If you never put it on any camera at all, it is still a 50mm.

Yep.

Originally posted by bmonki

I'll say it in stupid terms for you so you can understand. A 50 is only called a 50 because it's a 50 on 35mm, but put it on an APS-C it zooms forward, on a medium format it zooms backwards, this called crop factor and this crop factor is measured by 35mm... I don't think I can say it any simple than that...

Nope. Hey look, I made a tutorial for you! I'm the nicest guy that I know.

Na Horuk · 10-31-2012, 10:25 AM

Jake, you explained that well, but APS-C lenses are often optically identical to FF lenses of previous generations, no? So in those cases it is the exact same lens that uses the "fullframe" standard, right? Only the sensor is smaller.

Kunzite · 10-31-2012, 10:30 AM

Then, take the first situation/diagram (24x36mm) and imagine you'd take the negative, develop it then cut its edges with a pair of scissors to APS-C. It's exactly the same thing, except the cutting takes part in the camera

- and the only difference between an APS-C only, "full frame" or medium format 50mm lens is the ability to cover the respective format without mechanical vignetting.

Every capture is a crop from the image circle, but the lens has no idea how much you'd crop.

jakeblues · 10-31-2012, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Then, take the first situation/diagram (24x36mm) and imagine you'd take the negative, develop it then cut its edges with a pair of scissors to APS-C. It's exactly the same thing, except the cutting takes part in the camera

- and the only difference between an APS-C only, "full frame" or medium format 50mm lens is the ability to cover the respective format without mechanical vignetting.

Every capture is a crop from the image circle, but the lens has no idea how much you'd crop.

yep.

**Rondec** · 10-31-2012, 11:44 AM

I think the issue is more what you are used to. If you are used to a certain field of view with a certain focal length, then anything different seems different. I think people who have used lots of different formats don't get nearly as perturbed by the different formats. It just isn't that big a deal.

The biggest problem is that for a long time the camera companies sold APS-C as giving extra length to your lenses (which it doesn't, except if pixel density is higher). Although, it was probably more true in the past when, for instance, there were APS-C with 18 megapixel sensors and most of Nikon's full frames were just 12 megapixels.

jakeblues · 10-31-2012, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

I think the issue is more what you are used to.

I actually completely agree.

I hate shooting APS-C because of the small viewfinders. However, I was shooting a sony alpha NEX 5 the other day and LOVED it. The big screen on the back gave me more of the familiar feel that I was used to - basically a big (electronic) viewfinder. Felt just like home.

normhead · 10-31-2012, 05:56 PM

I don't know about you guys... it doesn't matter what lens it is , what format it is, what the name of the camera is, you look though the viewfinder and you see what you've got.

Quote:

basically a big (electronic) viewfinder. Felt just like home.

You mean like on a point and shoot? Two words for you "live view."

Sagitta · 10-31-2012, 06:31 PM

Think of the focal length as a size 'L' t-shirt.

Whether its worn by a short guy who swims in it, a big guy who it fits well, or a big fat sumo wrestler who splits the seams trying to put it on, it is still a size L shirt. The shirt never changes, its what its being used on that changes.

Alizarine · 10-31-2012, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by Sagitta

Whether its worn by a short guy who swims in it, a big guy who it fits well, or a big fat sumo wrestler who splits the seams trying to put it on, it is still a size L shirt. The shirt never changes, its what its being used on that changes.

that's a good comparison (or at least to me)

markac · 11-01-2012, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by cali92rs

I wonder if Pentax is worried that you guys will drop a giant can of Foster's on the lens?

Foster's has never really been all that popular here In Australia, at least since the Barry McKenzie days. Much better beers to be had like Cooper's for instance

thibs · 11-01-2012, 03:18 AM

Originally posted by jakeblues

I actually completely agree.

I hate shooting APS-C because of the small viewfinders. However, I was shooting a sony alpha NEX 5 the other day and LOVED it. The big screen on the back gave me more of the familiar feel that I was used to - basically a big (electronic) viewfinder. Felt just like home.

Funny, I'd chose the exact opposite

**TER-OR** · 11-01-2012, 06:34 AM

One potential advantage of crop sensors is avoiding vignetting found in some FF lenses. Or, if an older FF lens was kinda crappy around the perimiter, this should automatically be cropped by the sensor. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me.

I'm using a couple FF lenses now - the FA 100mm macro is very nice on my K-5 (and the K-10 before it). I hope it will be as nice on the mythical Pentax FF camera.

cali92rs · 11-01-2012, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by markac

Foster's has never really been all that popular here In Australia, at least since the Barry McKenzie days. Much better beers to be had like Cooper's for instance

See, this is why I love this site! Thanks for the heads-up

Now I know what to order when I make a trip down there

ElJamoquio · 11-01-2012, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by TER-OR

One potential advantage of crop sensors is avoiding vignetting found in some FF lenses. Or, if an older FF lens was kinda crappy around the perimiter, this should automatically be cropped by the sensor. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me.

I'm using a couple FF lenses now - the FA 100mm macro is very nice on my K-5 (and the K-10 before it). I hope it will be as nice on the mythical Pentax FF camera.

Vignetting - yes. Crappy around the outside - I've yet to see a FF lens that has worse LP/PH values in FF than in APS-C, when comparing reasonable FF and APS-C cameras.

mrNewt · 11-01-2012, 09:49 AM

A Pentax FF ....

... is it April fools day again ...

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10-31-2012, 10:08 AM	#346
jakeblues Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Los Angeles Photos: Albums Posts: 167	Originally posted by vonBaloney A 50mm is called a 50mm because that is the focal length of the lens, and it doesn't change. If you never put it on any camera at all, it is still a 50mm. Yep. Originally posted by bmonki I'll say it in stupid terms for you so you can understand. A 50 is only called a 50 because it's a 50 on 35mm, but put it on an APS-C it zooms forward, on a medium format it zooms backwards, this called crop factor and this crop factor is measured by 35mm... I don't think I can say it any simple than that... Nope. Hey look, I made a tutorial for you! I'm the nicest guy that I know.

10-31-2012, 10:25 AM	#347
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Jake, you explained that well, but APS-C lenses are often optically identical to FF lenses of previous generations, no? So in those cases it is the exact same lens that uses the "fullframe" standard, right? Only the sensor is smaller.

10-31-2012, 10:30 AM	#348
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Then, take the first situation/diagram (24x36mm) and imagine you'd take the negative, develop it then cut its edges with a pair of scissors to APS-C. It's exactly the same thing, except the cutting takes part in the camera - and the only difference between an APS-C only, "full frame" or medium format 50mm lens is the ability to cover the respective format without mechanical vignetting. Every capture is a crop from the image circle, but the lens has no idea how much you'd crop.

10-31-2012, 10:40 AM	#349
jakeblues Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Los Angeles Photos: Albums Posts: 167	Originally posted by Kunzite Then, take the first situation/diagram (24x36mm) and imagine you'd take the negative, develop it then cut its edges with a pair of scissors to APS-C. It's exactly the same thing, except the cutting takes part in the camera - and the only difference between an APS-C only, "full frame" or medium format 50mm lens is the ability to cover the respective format without mechanical vignetting. Every capture is a crop from the image circle, but the lens has no idea how much you'd crop. yep.

10-31-2012, 11:44 AM	#350
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	I think the issue is more what you are used to. If you are used to a certain field of view with a certain focal length, then anything different seems different. I think people who have used lots of different formats don't get nearly as perturbed by the different formats. It just isn't that big a deal. The biggest problem is that for a long time the camera companies sold APS-C as giving extra length to your lenses (which it doesn't, except if pixel density is higher). Although, it was probably more true in the past when, for instance, there were APS-C with 18 megapixel sensors and most of Nikon's full frames were just 12 megapixels.

10-31-2012, 05:13 PM	#351
jakeblues Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Los Angeles Photos: Albums Posts: 167	Originally posted by Rondec I think the issue is more what you are used to. I actually completely agree. I hate shooting APS-C because of the small viewfinders. However, I was shooting a sony alpha NEX 5 the other day and LOVED it. The big screen on the back gave me more of the familiar feel that I was used to - basically a big (electronic) viewfinder. Felt just like home.

10-31-2012, 05:56 PM	#352
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	I don't know about you guys... it doesn't matter what lens it is , what format it is, what the name of the camera is, you look though the viewfinder and you see what you've got. Quote: basically a big (electronic) viewfinder. Felt just like home. You mean like on a point and shoot? Two words for you "live view."

10-31-2012, 06:31 PM	#353
Sagitta Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,081	Think of the focal length as a size 'L' t-shirt. Whether its worn by a short guy who swims in it, a big guy who it fits well, or a big fat sumo wrestler who splits the seams trying to put it on, it is still a size L shirt. The shirt never changes, its what its being used on that changes.

10-31-2012, 06:42 PM	#354
Alizarine Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,185	Originally posted by Sagitta Whether its worn by a short guy who swims in it, a big guy who it fits well, or a big fat sumo wrestler who splits the seams trying to put it on, it is still a size L shirt. The shirt never changes, its what its being used on that changes. that's a good comparison (or at least to me)

11-01-2012, 01:00 AM	#355
markac Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Adelaide Posts: 84	Originally posted by cali92rs I wonder if Pentax is worried that you guys will drop a giant can of Foster's on the lens? Foster's has never really been all that popular here In Australia, at least since the Barry McKenzie days. Much better beers to be had like Cooper's for instance

11-01-2012, 03:18 AM	#356
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by jakeblues I actually completely agree. I hate shooting APS-C because of the small viewfinders. However, I was shooting a sony alpha NEX 5 the other day and LOVED it. The big screen on the back gave me more of the familiar feel that I was used to - basically a big (electronic) viewfinder. Felt just like home. Funny, I'd chose the exact opposite

11-01-2012, 06:34 AM	#357
TER-OR Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Dundee, IL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,699	One potential advantage of crop sensors is avoiding vignetting found in some FF lenses. Or, if an older FF lens was kinda crappy around the perimiter, this should automatically be cropped by the sensor. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me. I'm using a couple FF lenses now - the FA 100mm macro is very nice on my K-5 (and the K-10 before it). I hope it will be as nice on the mythical Pentax FF camera.

11-01-2012, 07:03 AM	#358
cali92rs Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 3,354	Originally posted by markac Foster's has never really been all that popular here In Australia, at least since the Barry McKenzie days. Much better beers to be had like Cooper's for instance See, this is why I love this site! Thanks for the heads-up Now I know what to order when I make a trip down there

11-01-2012, 09:41 AM	#359
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by TER-OR One potential advantage of crop sensors is avoiding vignetting found in some FF lenses. Or, if an older FF lens was kinda crappy around the perimiter, this should automatically be cropped by the sensor. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me. I'm using a couple FF lenses now - the FA 100mm macro is very nice on my K-5 (and the K-10 before it). I hope it will be as nice on the mythical Pentax FF camera. Vignetting - yes. Crappy around the outside - I've yet to see a FF lens that has worse LP/PH values in FF than in APS-C, when comparing reasonable FF and APS-C cameras.

11-01-2012, 09:49 AM	#360
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	A Pentax FF .... ... is it April fools day again ...