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10-08-2012, 05:26 PM - 1 Like   #31
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It's the choice of the word "technologies" that I was interested in. What people have described here is "engineering", ie the design of something using existing technologies. If you're developing a technology, you're either pushing it into places it hasn't been before, or developing a new way of doing things. I agree that a revised SAFOX probably counts as technology development, but the rest is just design engineering.

Maybe translation is the key to understanding what was originally intended. Either that, or it's loose marketing language, when they really meant "engineering", but wanted to make it sound more mysterious or deeper than it really is (or possibly didn't understand that a technical audience might misinterpret it). Precision in language has become something of an endangered species in this contemporary world, where obfuscation is rewarded, and conciseness dismissed.

10-08-2012, 05:26 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
The most expensive part is not necessarily the design or development. Getting it ready for production can cost a fortune. There are hundreds if not thosands of parts in such a camera and somebody has to make them for Pentax to their specification.
A Pentax FF camera will cost around $3000. New FF lenses will cost $2000 +. The worldwide marked is probably around 10 000 units.
And who would they buy the sensor from? Sony already sells all the sensors it can to Nikon and uses the rest themselves. If Pentax has to go to a boutique CMOS fab like Leica did then expect a Pentax FF to cost as much as a Leica.
10-08-2012, 05:35 PM   #33
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IMHO, even if Pentax is releasing FF now, no one will be rushing into it because 1) FF sensor is still expensive and 2) Pentax needs to improve on other areas such as AF system so that it is at least near or on-par with Canikon FF models to be competitive. For those who think they need FF now, they should choose other brands. For me, unless Canikon makes a FF with similar ergonomic and lightweight as the k-5, I will be waiting for Pentax to release a FF in the sub-$2000 price (hopefully within a year or two ).
10-08-2012, 05:35 PM   #34
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I went to this event on Sunday afternoon, but could only stay a few minutes.
I can't comment on the FF, but it was a good showing from Pentax with a few pros there with photos taken by the K-5IIs on display.
There were some of the new K-5 II/IIs to try and lots of Q10's, which I tried quickly, and a Q10 with DA300 and K-5 with 560.

A quick link of photos(not mine, but I will post later. Think these are from the Osaka event; I went to the Tokyo one) here:
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/newsn display./20121001_563316.html

10-08-2012, 05:37 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
and how much market is the 645D? why is actual FF so much harder to produce again?

bigger prism and a mirror? Pentax already managed even larger with the 645D with a lot of re-used components from their APS-C cameras with an already FF mount and mirrorbox....
The 645D did take a very long time to hit the market and because it re-used components it isnt nearly as good as the likes of phase 1, it makes it place in the market by being substantially cheaper. With FF pentax need to be more careful since Canon and Nikon are already making affordable FF, if they come out half-assed without putting considerable thought and effort into the creation of the camera it will be a flop and potentially lose the company money.
Were not trying to make excuses, these things just take time, especially for quality.
10-08-2012, 05:40 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
And who would they buy the sensor from? Sony already sells all the sensors it can to Nikon and uses the rest themselves. If Pentax has to go to a boutique CMOS fab like Leica did then expect a Pentax FF to cost as much as a Leica.
I believe Leica went to Cmosis because their sensor requirements are different from that of a DSLR, in order to make their wide angle lenses work well. Then again I could be wrong.
10-08-2012, 05:47 PM   #37
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Pass the popcorn please!
10-08-2012, 05:51 PM   #38
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I'm looking for a big daddy K-01 with a 24x36 sensor. I don't need a viewfinder or stabilization, just a well-executed live view and great sensor with a K-mount. It can be a "special model" like the K-01, allowing Pentax to work on some FF technologies without committing to lots of new lenses and a FF viewfinder.


Last edited by civiletti; 10-08-2012 at 05:52 PM. Reason: missed a word
10-08-2012, 06:07 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Louicio Quote
The 645D did take a very long time to hit the market and because it re-used components it isnt nearly as good as the likes of phase 1, it makes it place in the market by being substantially cheaper. With FF pentax need to be more careful since Canon and Nikon are already making affordable FF, if they come out half-assed without putting considerable thought and effort into the creation of the camera it will be a flop and potentially lose the company money.
Were not trying to make excuses, these things just take time, especially for quality.
again, considering K-Mount is natively FF, it would be much easier to design and produce than the 645D was. the "re-used APS-C components" would handle FF much better as well.

the 645D wasn't a major flop and made the company some money the way it was implemented using standard components. the K-5 and K-5IIs still use most of the same components as the K-7, why arent those considered "half-assed"? The sensor they need is commercially available, the rest Pentax has already made plenty of real cameras out of.

if there's anything Pentax has had, it's time to consider FF. their very first digital SLR prototype was FF. in 2001.
10-08-2012, 06:14 PM   #40
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Yawn. So many more things for Pentax to work on than waste R&D on FF... that is if they really are doing any R&D on FF.
10-08-2012, 06:26 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by sandilands Quote
Yawn. So many more things for Pentax to work on than waste R&D on FF... that is if they really are doing any R&D on FF.
R&D? there's no R left to be done, just D. Pentax is no stranger to FF.

i suppose they should spend more R&D on the K-01 and Q.......no not really.
10-08-2012, 06:35 PM - 2 Likes   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
And who would they buy the sensor from? Sony already sells all the sensors it can to Nikon and uses the rest themselves. If Pentax has to go to a boutique CMOS fab like Leica did then expect a Pentax FF to cost as much as a Leica.
What indication do you have that Pentax can't buy FF sensors from Sony? They manage to sell their 16mp APS-C sensor for multiple models of Nikon and Pentax cameras plus they put them their own bodies. That 16mp sensor probably won't be in production for much longer which will open up production resources. If Sony has a customer waiting to give them money, I'm sure they'll find a way to sell them their wares. It doesn't make sense for Sony to turn away profitable business. There might be a delay of some sort but I seriously doubt that would be a real reason for Pentax to have to source sensors from someone other than Sony. The D800 isn't going to maintain the kind of volume sales that it has, they will surely tapper off and settle down soon if they haven't already.
10-08-2012, 06:37 PM - 1 Like   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
i suppose they should spend more R&D on the K-01 and Q.......no not really.
I'll bet they learned quite a lot of useful information engineering the K-01. They redeveloped IBIS engineering, for instance. So Hoya marketing made an unpopular decision, BFD. Everyone here who breaks down and actually BUYS a K-01 seems to like the camera. Same goes for the Q.
10-08-2012, 06:44 PM   #44
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Adam should make a forum or menu for this 135mm news/rumors threads.

QuoteOriginally posted by wed7 Quote
Pass the popcorn please!
LOL
10-08-2012, 06:45 PM   #45
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Thank Gods for threads like this.
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