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11-19-2012, 06:37 AM   #436
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Tilt/swivel screen isn't a pro feature, or the top end Canon and Nikon cameras would have it. But Ricoh are taking on the FF challenge and in time an upgrade pathway worth sinking our teeth into will be dished out. And so to with DFA lenses.
Whether a tilt screen is or isn't a "pro" feature is immaterial. I do a great deal of nature photography, and getting the camera low, even down to ground level is critical for many pictures. After two hip surgeries this is not merely difficult, it is dangerous (the prosthesis can disarticulate). The Pentax right-angle finder is clumsy - you still must get down very low and the magnification switch is not parfocal (HOW could they allow such a design flaw??). While not a perfect solution, a tilt screen would be very convenient. A number of times I've touted the merits - originality kudos to the first manufacturer to introduce this feature - a removable screen that could be tethered back to the camera body by wire. Would beat spending $600 + for the little monitors designed for video cameras. That feature would be useful for other applications: think of bending your neck back to see a tilt screen held overhead at arm's length to take pictures over a crowd; now think of the camera held aloft on a monopod with the monitor screen right at eye level in front of you.

11-19-2012, 08:26 AM   #437
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
A number of times I've touted the merits - originality kudos to the first manufacturer to introduce this feature - a removable screen that could be tethered back to the camera body by wire. Would beat spending $600 + for the little monitors designed for video cameras. That feature would be useful for other applications: think of bending your neck back to see a tilt screen held overhead at arm's length to take pictures over a crowd; now think of the camera held aloft on a monopod with the monitor screen right at eye level in front of you.
A DIY project with one of these?

Large Digital Sony Camera LCD Display Screen with All test for SONY NEX3,5 - Sony Camera LCD Screen on sales from China good quality Sony Camera LCD Screen manufacturer
11-19-2012, 09:05 AM - 1 Like   #438
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take the k-5, drop the mechanical sr...
add the 24 mp sony ff sensor...
use the same software sr from the k-01...
add a viewfinder mask and sensor crop for aps-c lenses.
price it within a couple hundred bucks of the k-5IIs
add the articulated lcd screen from the x-5, and weather seal it.
give it some serious video chops while you're under the hood... a duo core prime m engine and tonnes of buffer ram...

kill 'em all in the market place and blow Pentax's sales through the roof...
then bring out a model that sits between this ff and the 645 d for the "pro" market....
11-19-2012, 09:06 AM   #439
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DIY is fairly easy with a K20, which can be tethered to a computer from which almost all features can be controlled in addition to using the computer as a monitor, BUT that means carrying a computer or tablet into the field. A detachable, reconnectable by wire LCD on the camera would be immensely more portable/convenient, and with a few Velcro strip to attach a Hoodman magnifier.....

11-19-2012, 10:36 AM   #440
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QuoteOriginally posted by D0n Quote
use the same software sr from the k-01...
What - are you saying that the K-01 does not have a proper sensor shift SR?

EDIT: From the specs
QuoteQuote:
Sensor-shift PENTAX Shake and Dust Reduction system
Are you perhaps mixing it with the Q toy camera or something? Haven't checked if the Q has "digital SR" only.

EDIT 2: Nope, the Q has sensor shift as well
QuoteQuote:
IMAGE STABILIZATION
Type: Sensor Shift Shake Reduction
Where did you get the software SR idea from?

Last edited by Raffwal; 11-19-2012 at 10:43 AM.
11-19-2012, 10:42 AM   #441
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
What - are you saying that the K-01 does not have a proper sensor shift SR?

EDIT: From the specs at Dpr

Are you perhaps mixing it with the Q toy camera or something? Haven't checked if the Q has "digital SR" only.
I was under the impression that the camera uses BOTH mechanical and software based sr, and that this had some detrimental effects on video, in the k-01 and k-30.....
11-19-2012, 10:51 AM   #442
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Tilt/swivel screen isn't a pro feature, or the top end Canon and Nikon cameras would have it.
By that logic, pro cameras should stay locked in from now until the end of time, because if it isn't currently included in the top Canikon offering it isn't useful or necessary.

I disagree. I am a football (American Football) junkie and every game you have the photographers holding the camera straight over their head, shooting blindly at the coaches as they meet midfield.
I see the same thing with phtographers shooting blindly, cameras straight up over head at red carpet events. You're telling me a swiveling rear screen wouldn't be helpful in those situations?
11-19-2012, 12:24 PM - 1 Like   #443
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Precedence doesn't fix the future, I realise that. But my opinion remains that articulated screens aren't desirable and if Pentax did produce a flagship camera next year (or whenever) with such a screen I wouldn't buy it. And I shoot nature often - I don't mind lying down at odd angles to get the shot I want. Good results take some hard work, and I'm not convinced making a damage-prone articulated screen for the sake of convenience or saving photographers from getting down and dirty for their shots is a good compromise. Produce a K300D with such a screen and I'm sure it will sell, but I won't be buying it...

I wonder how those photojournalists get their job done without a tilt/swivel screen seeing as though none of their gear has this feature? I'm not for a second saying the feature is useless, just not worth the risk of damage and producing a product that doesn't have the longevity of its predecessors. I can just imagine how many articulated screens would be snapped off their cameras in the chaos of the red carpet photography environment.


Last edited by Ash; 11-19-2012 at 01:24 PM.
11-19-2012, 12:40 PM   #444
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Precedence doesn't fix the future, I realise that. But my opinion remains that articulated screen aren't desirable and if Pentax did produce a flagship camera next year (or whenever) with such a screen I wouldn't buy it. And I shoot nature often - I don't mind lying down at odd angles to get the shot I want. Good results take some hard work, and I'm not convinced making a damage-prone articulated screen for the sake of convenience or saving photographers from getting down and dirty for their shots is a good compromise. Produce a K300D with such a screen and I'm sure it will sell, but I won't be buying it...

I wonder how those photojournalists get their job done without a tilt/swivel screen seeing as though none of their gear has this feature? I'm not for a second saying the feature is useless, just not worth the risk of damage and producing a product that doesn't have the longevity of its predecessors. I can just imagine how many articulated screen would be snapped off their cameras in the chaos of the red carpet photography environment.
Have you ever used one? Not particularly damage-prone, and the fully articulating ones can be placed with the screen facing in for storage, making your camera LESS prone to damage. And if you don't want to use it, you just don't touch it and it is the same as the current screen, so why in the world would you refuse to buy one even if you don't care about the feature? Having had one before, it is a GREAT feature and super-useful -- it is one of those things that once you have you can't believe you got along without. There is no downside whatsoever (as far as usability -- increased cost of camera could be a downside).
11-19-2012, 12:44 PM   #445
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Panasonic DMC-G3 In-depth Review: Digital Photography Review

I disagree with some peoples assertion that the lcd would be flimsy or useless...
it can be done, it can be weather sealed, and it can be useful especially for video and macro work.
11-19-2012, 01:04 PM   #446
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Yep. I've used a few cameras with articulating screens. I've used them for both nature and portraiture. I know what it can do and how solid they can be made. I still dislike them but that doesn't mean they wouldn't sell. It's just a personal preference. Even after using cameras with this feature for a while, I've never missed it. Having the feature and not using it is an option, but a flush back design without seams is better off for me. A screen facing in to 'protect' it is more fiddling than what it's worth. A screen is not going to be damaged when the camera is stored in a camera bag. I've never had that issue with 7 dSLRs over 7 years...

It's not the same to me as LV. I could take or leave that feature as well, but just because its there and has a dedicated button, it's not intruding significantly on the camera design to bother me. But if was not there, I'd still have bought the K-5.

The cameras with articulating touchscreens as above have their merits. Those are great for the lighter and more compact designs. What I'm saying is that if Pentax comes out with a FF camera without an articulating screen or even LV or movie mode, I'd still buy it. But I'd think twice if it sported an articulating screen.

Last edited by Ash; 11-19-2012 at 01:17 PM.
11-19-2012, 01:15 PM   #447
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
What I'm saying is that if Pentax comes out with a FF camera without an articulating screen or even LV or movie mode, I'd still buy it. But I'd think twice if it sported an articulating screen.
I'd buy it faster. For mirrorless models where you only have the screen, they should be standard.
11-19-2012, 01:19 PM   #448
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
I'd buy it faster. For mirrorless models where you only have the screen, they should be standard.
Perhaps you can consider the above Panasonic then. It's available for you right now! I'm sure you'll beat me to it as well...
Didn't Sony also come out with a FF mirrorless?
That too is design I'm not very fussed about for Pentax to emulate.
11-19-2012, 01:32 PM   #449
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Perhaps you can consider the above Panasonic then. It's available for you right now! I'm sure you'll beat me to it as well...
Didn't Sony also come out with a FF mirrorless?
That too is design I'm not very fussed about for Pentax to emulate.
It isn't so important that I'm going to go switch systems or anything, and I certainly can understand if you don't want to use it. (For instance, I don't shoot video and if they dropped that I wouldn't care one bit.) I just don't know of any really good arguments against it (other than cost/complexity of manufacture/possibility of failure, etc -- stuff you can say about any feature). What you are are saying is like if I had refused to buy the K-5 because it had video -- it just doesn't make sense to me. Some features come at a cost of other features -- like you might have an EVF or an OVF, but you're not going to have both so if you really hate one over the other it makes sense not to buy that camera. A well-designed articulating screen costs nothing to those that don't like it, just like the video mode on my camera that I don't use, or all those effects filters that I don't use, the GPS function, etc etc. This is something that will help me take pictures I can't take otherwise without a lot more effort, so it goes beyond just being a gimmick...
11-19-2012, 01:42 PM   #450
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I do shoot video. Pentax needs to appeal to a broader market in order to sell enough units to keep the prices down.
so if one biotches about video complaining they'd rather have stills only then they shoot themselves in the foot when Pentax can't match prices with competitors who have larger market share due to broader appeal to consumers...
they need me and my indie filmaking friends to buy cameras to keep costs down for you...
and if I buy the panasonic, then there's money pentax could have had.

I have a number of Sony prosumer camcorders... I HATE SONY... I collect Pentax. Had Pentax addressed the video short commings in it's line up sooner.... I'd have less Sony's and more lenses....

that's the reality that affects prices for us all...
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