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11-27-2012, 12:40 AM   #481
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Same here. Why should I give up on seeing, being instead presented a rough interpretation of what the sensor sees? It's like the difference from going there to searching Google for images; if all you need are some already processed JPEGs displayed on a low-ish quality uncalibrated display, no need to get up from your chair.

I would use either the OVF or the back LCD, of course, but I like having this choice.
Add to this the problem camera still have when interacting with FL lights.
In Paris two weeks ago, I looked thru NEX6/NEX7 EVF and OM-D EVF.
The all flickered at times but the NEXes EVF did flickered like hell. I'd get a headache in 3 minutes. Ouch !

I found the OMD EVF to be almost useable despite it flaws: flickering, low resolution, always (and by much) late if you move to much.
Try to follow your kid running, not even speaking about sports. Ouch.
Still the Oly lenses were BY FAR smaller than NEX ones. All in all, it makes sense.

But even OM-D EVF is EVF's infancy. Don't get me wring, EVF adds a ton of good things. But unusable, I don't care about the goods.

11-27-2012, 09:08 AM   #482
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QuoteOriginally posted by civiletti Quote
I have a hard time seeing the value of this view. The image recorded by the camera can be represented better by an EVF than by an OVF, and it is that image the photographer is after. If one is after the reality of the view, one should put down the camera and use two eyes.
Except that EVG is smaller than the screen on my Galaxy phone.
11-27-2012, 06:22 PM   #483
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Both have their utility, but as for real-time fidelity, EVF would be like trying to replace a person with a look-alike robot (Artificial Intelligence comes to mind).
I don't think that analogy holds up -- it's a matter of image reproduction, not creating a believable person from whole cloth. But even on that front, compare the digital people in a recent digital animation like Brave with the creepy machinema-like look from Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within from 2001. Imagine how that'll be in another ten years!

I, for one, welcome our robot overlords.
11-27-2012, 06:28 PM   #484
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Same here. Why should I give up on seeing, being instead presented a rough interpretation of what the sensor sees?
Well, imagine that the EVF had no perceptable lag, could switch at a touch from a view that looked like human perception to one approximating your usual final RAW processing (black and white, maybe?) to one with amplified light beyond human perception, and was ten times the area of your current optical finder.

11-27-2012, 07:29 PM   #485
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
I, for one, welcome our robot overlords.
Their love machines are still mechanical though.

I like your nicely painted picture of how EVF would look once refined. Sounds fine - I'd probably only use it like I'm using LV right now... composition of an image off eye-level.
11-28-2012, 12:06 AM   #486
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
Well, imagine that the EVF had no perceptable lag, could switch at a touch from a view that looked like human perception to one approximating your usual final RAW processing (black and white, maybe?) to one with amplified light beyond human perception, and was ten times the area of your current optical finder.
Is that from a sci-fi movie?
11-28-2012, 12:23 AM   #487
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
and was ten times the area of your current optical finder.
That would be unusable since you couldn't focus on the whole scene at one time. The MX's viewfinder is enormous already at only about 2x the area of the K-5's. A viewfinder 10x the size would be like trying compose with an IMAX screen from the front row.
11-28-2012, 12:57 AM   #488
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
That would be unusable since you couldn't focus on the whole scene at one time. The MX's viewfinder is enormous already at only about 2x the area of the K-5's. A viewfinder 10x the size would be like trying compose with an IMAX screen from the front row.
Well, not really. If you strap one of those Zacuto Z-finders to your rig you basically have a rather oversized EVF. On some cameras you can even switch the view to monochrome and have a black/white large viewfinder.

11-28-2012, 01:50 AM   #489
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Well, not really. If you strap one of those Zacuto Z-finders to your rig you basically have a rather oversized EVF. On some cameras you can even switch the view to monochrome and have a black/white large viewfinder.
Believe me, I have a 3x LCD magnifying finder on the back of my K-5, and an MX on hand. Judging them side by side the magnified LCD is only slightly larger. The MX's viewfinder is truly enormous (by my math it is nearly the same size as the 645D's) and starting to push the limits of practicality. But do the calculations and you find it is only ~2.3x the visual area of the K-5's viewfinder. A VF with 10x the area be more than 4x the MX/645D's.

Such a viewfinder would be physiologically impossible to focus on in its entirety, as its edges would extend well into your peripheral vision. You would have to shift your eyes around to focus on the whole thing, which would make it a terrible VF.

Last edited by Cannikin; 11-28-2012 at 02:16 AM.
11-28-2012, 07:13 PM   #490
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I am not participating in ths thread, i just use the topmost FF thread to leave a short notice...

In Germany, the D600 sells at 1599 Euro while the K-5II sells at 999 Euro (Prices from reputated seller Audiophil, body only, K-5IIs is 200 Euro more). Also, Nikon classified the D600 as consumer and makes it in Thailand, both first for their full frame bodies. Their model below the D600 is the APS-C D7000 selling at 799 Euro.

This pretty much confirms predictions I made earlier this year and before: That the 1000$+ / 1000€+ enthusiast market for APS-C is gone by 2013. Makes me wonder where Pentax wants to position their anticipated APS-C pro body.
11-28-2012, 11:38 PM   #491
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Maybe they are about to release an enthusiast FF instead.
11-29-2012, 12:08 AM   #492
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OTOH I know people who are waiting (hoping?) for the D400's replacement; not really convinced by the D7000, not willing to go D600 and buy new lenses.
11-29-2012, 01:48 AM   #493
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
OTOH I know people who are waiting (hoping?) for the D400's replacement; not really convinced by the D7000, not willing to go D600 and buy new lenses.
I was thinking about hanging around for a D400 or D8000 (24MP) so I could stretch my Telephoto a bit more than the 15MP my D800E crop mode offers but it's probably a better long term option to save for a 500mm lens instead.
11-29-2012, 04:15 AM   #494
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I am not participating in ths thread, i just use the topmost FF thread to leave a short notice...

In Germany, the D600 sells at 1599 Euro while the K-5II sells at 999 Euro (Prices from reputated seller Audiophil, body only, K-5IIs is 200 Euro more). Also, Nikon classified the D600 as consumer and makes it in Thailand, both first for their full frame bodies. Their model below the D600 is the APS-C D7000 selling at 799 Euro.

This pretty much confirms predictions I made earlier this year and before: That the 1000$+ / 1000€+ enthusiast market for APS-C is gone by 2013. Makes me wonder where Pentax wants to position their anticipated APS-C pro body.
And what about SONY's Aplha 77 + Canon just leaked EOS 7D MkII in this scheme ?

I don't believe your prediction is gonna be 100% true
11-29-2012, 05:59 AM   #495
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
I was thinking about hanging around for a D400 or D8000 (24MP) so I could stretch my Telephoto a bit more than the 15MP my D800E crop mode offers but it's probably a better long term option to save for a 500mm lens instead.
15mp is in between the K20d and and K-5.
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