[RobA_Oz]

Has anyone here ever heard the term "over-analysing"? For Pete's sake, you'd think the end of the universe was imminent to read some of these comments.

Norm, there's a simple answer to avoid Canon commercials (you know what I'm talking about). I took a break from reading any of Rupert Murdoch's newspapers a couple of years ago, and I've never felt better about the state of the world, in spite of the fact that I've now read more news and current affairs online than I've done with newspapers and magazines in the last thirty years. Take a mental health break from the pap that passes for mainstream television in the West and you may well feel the same (and I've seen Chinese TV broadcasts first-hand, so viewers in China could take similar advice, too - we're not as different as you may think, it's just that ours is privately-owned).

Laurentiu, you seem to have embarked on a one-man crusade to convince the rest of us that we're crazy for sticking with APS-C format, when you've found the Holy Grail of MFT. Good on you, mate. I've tried the latest, and it doesn't suit me. Just like I've tried the latest so-called FF, and that doesn't suit me, either (OK, maybe I'd make an exception for a Leica).

People seem to have lost sight of the fact that the biggest growing market for DSLRs in the world (China) is hardly represented here. By way of comparison, you'd think the Toyota juggernaut would have crushed any opposition there, for family cars - I'm here to tell you it hasn't. In case you've missed the point, all this pessimistic talk is about the somewhat depressed markets under your noses, while the biggest future ones in China (and India, which also barely gets a mention, and then it's still all bad) don't much care what reputation Pentax has in the US or Europe.

Will we see a 35mm Pentax DSLR early next year? Given the only official comment from the company, it looks likely, but we can't say with any certainty. Will it be any good? Only time will tell, but the success of the K-5 and the acclaim received by the makeover II/s (not to mention the K30) suggest it should be. Will Pentax marketing screw it up? Who knows, but the success of the recent DSLRs is not to be sneezed at, and let's not start talking about the Q (I don't want to further embarrass its early detractors). Only the K-01 can't be said to have been a success in the marketplace.

One thing I can say, is that the continual wailing, gnashing of teeth and rending of garments that peppers any discussion on this subject is not putting me (that's "me", not "most of us" or any other fictitious misrepresentation of the majority of Pentax shooters) in a frightfully good mood. To bring this back to my first comment, I'm taking a mental health break from this thread, and any other that even gets close to mentioning the elusive Pentax "Full Frame" until next year. The relentless doomsayers here can consume their own glum opinions and prepare their poisonous chicken entrails for the next rumour. Just as long as they stay away from the next Pentax offering...

[garyk]

+1 here

Just a side note on the Presents of Pentax in Thailand.
Here in Asia, Thailand. Almost all Pentax products have vanished. I see a very few in Bangkok. But last year I saw stores with the gear in them.
This year it is like Pentax does not exist. I found a few lenses that the big boys were discounting big to get rid of. And they were at the back of the self. I really had to look.

I'm no expert but I agree with you.

I jumped ship because I needed a few things that I thought would never materialize under the Pentax brand. Looking back on threads from 2008, I could see people were predicting, with the same obsession that they did this year, that 2008 was the year of the Pentax FF. So, after sending my DA*50-135 away for repairs twice this year (4 months away out of a one year warranty) and my new DA*55 needing 'new gears' I'd just had enough of the BS.

I decided to get on with what I wanted, even if it cost me in the short term.

[MrPetkus]

. To bring this back to my first comment, I'm taking a mental health break from this thread, and any other that even gets close to mentioning the elusive Pentax "Full Frame" until next year. The relentless doomsayers here can consume their own glum opinions and prepare their poisonous chicken entrails for the next rumour. Just as long as they stay away from the next Pentax offering...

We all know you'll keep reading this thread...

[tohax]

I think Pentax and Ricoh will overhaul the whole dslr system.. be prepared for the upcoming clearing sales. Christmas is coming..

[Mehlsack]

bla bla bla bla

Yeah the 2xFF+ 3xAPSC-DSLR Story again.

Of course with 10²²² Lensen.



Would be cool to see something groundbreaking like tethering

[gazonk]

Of course with 10²²² Lensen.

There's no room for that within the known universe

I agree about tethering, about time that they reintroduce that. Although I have to admit I used it exactly one time with my K10D, and not for a serious shot.

[Rondec]

Because to be successful you need more than a slightly better dxomark-rated sensor. Metering, autofocus, AWB, lenses, and accessories matter more to users. Beginners won't look at Pentax because they don't know about it and those more knowledgeable that want to build a solid system won't look at it because it's an incomplete system with an uncertain future. To top it off, Pentax continues to offer products that are equivalent to Canon/Nikon offerings (645 and Q are exceptions, but they are too niche as well) - you cannot take a juggernaut heads on - you need to look for a different market where the juggernaut cannot act quickly, like mirrorless manufacturers are doing, but Pentax has missed that train too. It's a tough job for Ricoh now.

I agree completely. I think metering is already decent. Auto focus needs a bunch of work. Flash needs a bunch of work. Still, it is heartening that Pentax didn't just stick a full frame sensor in a K5 body as some were suggesting and dump it on the market to flop.

That said, I do think Pentax's offerings are very different from Canon/Nikon offerings. To this point they have had smaller lenses with all metal builds. Tougher build of camera bodies with SR in the body.

The issue for beginners really has to do with lack of shelf presence in big box stores and maybe lack of marketing. It has nothing to do with the presence of a full frame camera in the line up. Most people buying cameras for the holidays are getting Canon Rebels for 400 dollars. And those cameras, with their kit lenses, aren't going to beat any Pentax camera in auto focus challenges except for the K-01. If the K30 was in stores and people could handle it, they would buy it. Not everyone, but plenty would, because it is just a lot more solid camera than the equivalent Canon/Nikon offerings.

[hangman43]

Pentax is trying in the last couple of months I have seen Pentax being given away on TV game shows which is something that I was surprised to see they have had the K-30 as a prize on The Price is Right and the K-01 on Let's Make a Deal that is more exposure than I have seen in the past now if they would just get in to some brick and mortar stores so people could actually hold and try it out,

[Kunzite]

There's no room for that within the known universe

They're pancakes, so there's just enough room

[gazonk]

They're pancakes, so there's just enough room

I think the pancakes would have to be thinner than the Planck length then

[Kunzite]

The 40mm f/2.8 already is... or so it seems

[Laurentiu Cristofor]

Most people buying cameras for the holidays are getting Canon Rebels for 400 dollars. And those cameras, with their kit lenses, aren't going to beat any Pentax camera in auto focus challenges except for the K-01.

I don't think this is true. Years ago, I compared the AF-C performance of the K10D against that of the Canon Rebel of the time - T1i or something that a friend had. We had another friend run and throw a stone and we both shot full burst. The K10D didn't nail focus in any shot; the Rebel just missed one. The K10D is a camera with great build and controls - the Rebel felt like a plastic toy - but it delivered in terms of AF-C. I went on to get the K-7 and K-x and neither seemed to make much progress in this area. AF-S works fine, but AF-C is another story.

As for the metal lenses, they are nice, but AF matters the most for beginners.

[Medium FormatPro]

better IQ than a K-5 than with a 5d... haven't found it yet

One would both have to handle the cameras a bit; perhaps more than 1k in pics, or... Via that comparison site simply download the raw files for at least two of the cameras. I was able to see a clear diffference in all four noted examples

[photoman1]

I hope Pentax intentionally "leaks" the FF specs

[normhead]

Canon Eos 5d mkII and Sigma 12-24, Tamron 28.75 f2,8 and Canon 100-400 is not far from that with big improvment in IQ and DOF. I bought Eos5dmkII last year over Pentax just because that. I use 28mm, 35mm, 50mm and 100mm with Canon and they are dirty cheap.

We are discussing 2 k here.

Canon Eos 5d mkII not available to me...but cheap on-line price $1699.
Canon 100-400 f 4.5 - 5.6 $1699 - sorry but the DA* 60-250 if constant F4. To get to Canon equivalent (400 @ F4 we have to go to a EF 400 F4 $6,859) Don't even try and substitute an f 5.6 lens for an F4 lens and have any kind of credibility. The strength o APS-c is cheaper glass in the long end. Cheating on this part totally skews the results.
Mark II Best price $1699.
Sigma 12-24 - $899
Tamron 28-75 $599
EF 400 F4 $6,859

Approximately $10k

My system (equivalent 4k)

Rating on Imaging Resource Mrk II rating on Imaging Resource
Our laboratory resolution chart revealed sharp, distinct line patterns down to about 2,200 lines per picture height horizontally, and about 2,000 lines in the vertical direction. Total extinction didn't occur until past 4,000(!) lines, but lines began to merge at about 2,600 lines horizontally and vertically (results from 2X target above are multiplied by 2)

Based on the above there is a very small advantage to the, but hardly significant. I doubt anyone could tell the difference between the two.

K-5 rating on Imaging Resource
We were able to extract more resolution (to about 2,100 lines) with RAW files processed through Adobe Camera RAW, with complete extinction extended to around 3,200 lines.

All the real evidence points to the fact that if you bought your 5D MkII for anything other than shooting fast moving objects, you got punked. The only way your system compares is if you don't match my DA* 60-250 with an equivalent lens. Sing - to the tune of "Oh yes the woman is, smarter" ," oh yes the Pentax looks, sharper"