[LFLee]

all these long discussion ..... so, any updates on whether Pentax is developing a FF camera?
When will be the next photography event for such announcement?

[Na Horuk]

When will be the next photography event for such announcement?

I think Pentax has made it pretty clear that they don't care much about events..

[LFLee]

I think Pentax has made it pretty clear that they don't care much about events..

Hm... make sense.

But the FF rumor have been quite recently. no people walking in store and over hear some Pentax rep talking, etc....

[jeffshaddix]

People on a Swedish Pentax forum are posting what "sources" has been saying at Fotomässan in Sweden.

Rumors about 7 new cameras, 5 new dslr/mirrorless next year.

K-300
K-3
New 645 with around 60 MP
One guy heard there's a FF coming next year, another guy wrote "Maybe a L-1 in the end of the year." Hard to interpret what he's meaning, but it seems he doubts what the source said, not that the source said maybe. Not clear if it's a Pentax rep or not. Because no one mentions who their source is it's impossible to know if they've talked to the same source.

And possibly a Q-2 WR (also this "maybe", hard to say if it's the source who said maybe or if it's the guys own opinion.).

Anyone else heard anything?

Here ya go

[Rondec]

I don't think this is true. Years ago, I compared the AF-C performance of the K10D against that of the Canon Rebel of the time - T1i or something that a friend had. We had another friend run and throw a stone and we both shot full burst. The K10D didn't nail focus in any shot; the Rebel just missed one. The K10D is a camera with great build and controls - the Rebel felt like a plastic toy - but it delivered in terms of AF-C. I went on to get the K-7 and K-x and neither seemed to make much progress in this area. AF-S works fine, but AF-C is another story.

As for the metal lenses, they are nice, but AF matters the most for beginners.

The K5 is significantly better than the K7 or K10 with regard to AF-C. The only problem at this point is that it doesn't have small auto focus points. They are quite large and therefore sometimes will focus on something around what you are trying to focus on. Particularly with the new K5 II which will focus in situations where the 7D gives up, things are a lot better than they used to be in the Pentax fold.

Anyway, the T1i or T2i aren't the cameras that are flying off the shelf. They are the XSI, or whatever Canon's base camera is right now. The T2i sells for 800 ish dollars. The XSI sells for 500-ish and has 9 auto focus points, most of them fairly useless. I don't know if you have ever shot one, but my experience is the center point one is the only one worth using and AF-C is lousy as well.

[rawr]

When will be the next photography event for such announcement?

CP+ in Japan, end of January - early February 2013.

[Laurentiu Cristofor]

Anyway, the T1i or T2i aren't the cameras that are flying off the shelf. They are the XSI, or whatever Canon's base camera is right now. The T2i sells for 800 ish dollars. The XSI sells for 500-ish and has 9 auto focus points, most of them fairly useless.

I had forgot the denomination - thanks for the reminder. The camera in my story was an Xsi or Xti - whatever Canon had around 5 years ago - I think this was actually before the T*i series even came out. Not an expensive model and that makes things worse, because the K10D and K-7 are higher end cameras than both X*i and T*i.

I think there are multiple issues there - size of AF points is one that affects AF-S too, but the lack of modern AF motors in most Pentax lenses is arguably an even bigger issue for AF-C. The screwdrive lenses just sound painful in AF-C mode and I never tried SDM ones after seeing all the complaints (and from what I read, they're not much faster either). I manually focus, so this is not important for me, but I can see why others might not pick Pentax because of this.

I don't know if you have ever shot one, but my experience is the center point one is the only one worth using and AF-C is lousy as well.

I only played a bit occasionally - never had any interest in Canon/Nikon DSLRs - I just don't like how they look and feel, especially after having used the K10D.

I told you one experience where I just saw someone else using their camera more effectively than I could coerce my Pentax K10D to behave - and they didn't use any fancy technique, just panning in automatic mode while shooting full burst. The rest is my experience testing the Pentax AF and it just doesn't seem reliable enough for mainstream use. Plus, on entry level cameras competing with X*i, like the K-x, it was challenging even for me to figure out where focus was achieved. Looking at the specs of the Canon equipment, I think that features like USM and focusing by wire give them an edge in that the AF motor needs to do less work and can do it perhaps a bit faster too; add the smaller AF points and better AF algorithms and you're getting a pretty good advantage. Kit lenses are perhaps better too. I played once with the long Nikon kit lens and it felt much more competent than my DA 50-200 - it was focusing more accurately and the results looked sharper too.

Hopefully, putting together the knowledge of Pentax to Ricoh will improve this area for future cameras. The low light performance of the K-5 II sounds good - I am not sure how that will translate to AF-C performance with screwdrive lenses though. But at this late stage, Ricoh needs some product to draw eyes away from other systems. They need to excel in an area that a larger segment of the market cares about. Other than a FF MILC, I am not sure what they can build to draw attention to their business - almost everything else is being offered already.

[gazonk]

I told you one experience where I just saw someone else using their camera more effectively than I could coerce my Pentax K10D to behave - and they didn't use any fancy technique, just panning in automatic mode while shooting full burst. The rest is my experience testing the Pentax AF and it just doesn't seem reliable enough for mainstream use. Plus, on entry level cameras competing with X*i, like the K-x, it was challenging even for me to figure out where focus was achieved. Looking at the specs of the Canon equipment, I think that features like USM and focusing by wire give them an edge in that the AF motor needs to do less work and can do it perhaps a bit faster too; add the smaller AF points and better AF algorithms and you're getting a pretty good advantage. Kit lenses are perhaps better too. I played once with the long Nikon kit lens and it felt much more competent than my DA 50-200 - it was focusing more accurately and the results looked sharper too.

Hmm, I have to agree I wasn't very impressed when I tried my K10D with AF.C and the DA50-200. With the DA70, though, I had decent results on several occasions (until the DA70 suddenly needed focus adjust, I think it happened after it was repaired, it's the only lens I've added an adjustment for on my K-5).

[Rondec]

I had forgot the denomination - thanks for the reminder. The camera in my story was an Xsi or Xti - whatever Canon had around 5 years ago - I think this was actually before the T*i series even came out. Not an expensive model and that makes things worse, because the K10D and K-7 are higher end cameras than both X*i and T*i.

I think there are multiple issues there - size of AF points is one that affects AF-S too, but the lack of modern AF motors in most Pentax lenses is arguably an even bigger issue for AF-C. The screwdrive lenses just sound painful in AF-C mode and I never tried SDM ones after seeing all the complaints (and from what I read, they're not much faster either). I manually focus, so this is not important for me, but I can see why others might not pick Pentax because of this.



I only played a bit occasionally - never had any interest in Canon/Nikon DSLRs - I just don't like how they look and feel, especially after having used the K10D.

I told you one experience where I just saw someone else using their camera more effectively than I could coerce my Pentax K10D to behave - and they didn't use any fancy technique, just panning in automatic mode while shooting full burst. The rest is my experience testing the Pentax AF and it just doesn't seem reliable enough for mainstream use. Plus, on entry level cameras competing with X*i, like the K-x, it was challenging even for me to figure out where focus was achieved. Looking at the specs of the Canon equipment, I think that features like USM and focusing by wire give them an edge in that the AF motor needs to do less work and can do it perhaps a bit faster too; add the smaller AF points and better AF algorithms and you're getting a pretty good advantage. Kit lenses are perhaps better too. I played once with the long Nikon kit lens and it felt much more competent than my DA 50-200 - it was focusing more accurately and the results looked sharper too.

Hopefully, putting together the knowledge of Pentax to Ricoh will improve this area for future cameras. The low light performance of the K-5 II sounds good - I am not sure how that will translate to AF-C performance with screwdrive lenses though. But at this late stage, Ricoh needs some product to draw eyes away from other systems. They need to excel in an area that a larger segment of the market cares about. Other than a FF MILC, I am not sure what they can build to draw attention to their business - almost everything else is being offered already.

I guess I don't understand. You are a big proponent of MILC cameras, which other than Nikon's 1 series, suck at AF-C. If it isn't a big deal for Panasonic and Olympus, why is it a big deal for Pentax?

As I said, I would argue that AF-C is a lot better on Pentax cameras than what a lot of forum users indicate.

Finally, it is not the motor driven lenses that are the issue. A lens like the DA 40 is as fast as anything that Nikon/Canon has to offer, even with their awesome in-lens motors. The issue is a lot more to do with focus throw (very long on some Pentax lenses, I guess to help with manual focusing) and size of lens elements. Sure, they make some noise, but for most people, that is not an issue, as long as they are high quality glass. Long term, you will get a lot more years of use out of an FA 77, than out of any in lens motor driven lens, from any maker. I don't know what the life span is on those, but I would guess ten to fifteen years. You'll get twice that out of a well-cared for screw driven lens easily.

[MrPetkus]

Originally posted by fikkser Quote People on a Swedish Pentax forum are posting what "sources" has been saying at Fotomässan in Sweden. Rumors about 7 new cameras, 5 new dslr/mirrorless next year. K-300 K-3 New 645 with around 60 MP One guy heard there's a FF coming next year, another guy wrote "Maybe a L-1 in the end of the year." Hard to interpret what he's meaning, but it seems he doubts what the source said, not that the source said maybe. Not clear if it's a Pentax rep or not. Because no one mentions who their source is it's impossible to know if they've talked to the same source. And possibly a Q-2 WR (also this "maybe", hard to say if it's the source who said maybe or if it's the guys own opinion.). Anyone else heard anything?

Regarding this Swedish forum blurb (which has been mentioned since before Photokina), I think early 2013 will be the time for APS-C to grab the limelight at the next expo. IMHO this is a good thing. Latest Canon 7DII rumors of a new 20+MP sensor, 10FPS pro body sound exciting and I'm sure Nikon won't let Canon fill this void. Personally, I would be much more willing to spend $1,700 on a highly-spec'd APS-C body (high FPS, class-leading AF, fat buffer, dual-card) than $2k on either the D600 or 6D.

[Mehlsack]

yeah i would prefer such high end APS-C DSLR but sadly most likely we won't see it with a K-Mount....

[photoman1]

Who knows when the FF will come out? Pentax has unpredictable release cycles. I think i read on ******************* post-2013.

[Ash]

MrPetkus how about a $2.5k Pentax FF with high FPS, class-leading AF, fat buffer and dual card slots? Doesn't sound incredible to me.
Mehlsack, isn't the K-5 II decently crafted as is? Overhauled AF with same brilliant 16Mp sensor, good buffer even in RAW shooting and pretty fast continuous drive rate?

[NickLarsson]

About FF MILCs :

FF mirrorless roundup: No new Fuji nor Sony mirrorless FF system any time soon?

Fuji and Sony are both hot candidates to launch the first Full Frame mirrorless system competing the expansive and luxury Leica M series. For months now I am working to collect info about their 2013 strategy and form what I got from trusted and also from new sources neither Fuji nor Sony will announce such a system within the next 8-10 months. At the same time I have been told that both are developing a FF system but there is a series of challenges that will have to be solved first. Both Fuji and Sony for example have to develop lenses for their current X and NEX systems. They cannot afford to launch a new system yet.

After all these years that Leica is cashing money on the Leica M series I am still surprised that nobody ever made a competitor!

So it seems Pentax still has some time to release the first "affordable" FF MILC on the market, since contrary to Sony and Fuji, they already have a decent FF lens lineup ready for launch.

Also, I think it would be easier for Pentax to compete against Fuji and Sony in this market, than against Canon and Nikon in the pro FF DSLR market (ask Sony!).

That said, the last interviews of Pentax reps didn't lead in that direction unfortunately...

[Ash]

Pentax have historically not been as interested in competition as they have been in innovation, uniqueness and being a niche brand. This can be seen in their marketing style (volume) as well as their consistently lesser market share, yet they've been at it for quite a number of years.

They wouldn't be competing with Leica, Fuji or Sony even if they did go MILC FF. Not everyone wants a MILC FF, though.