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12-12-2012, 02:50 PM   #646
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
MrPetkus how about a $2.5k Pentax FF with high FPS, class-leading AF, fat buffer and dual card slots? Doesn't sound incredible to me.
Mehlsack, isn't the K-5 II decently crafted as is? Overhauled AF with same brilliant 16Mp sensor, good buffer even in RAW shooting and pretty fast continuous drive rate?
Ash - that would be nice. I've analyzed the specs on the latest crop of FF offerings and the wonderful scenario you describe is reserved for the upper-tier pro bodies like the D4 and 1DX.
Everyone has different needs. I want a nimble, extremely responsive camera - high FPS and fast AF. I see an opportunity to get a decent sports cam on the cheap ($1.7k) with APS-C.
Until I can justify a D4 or 1DX, I hope the trend of churning out higher-performance, relatively inexpensive semi-pro APS-Cs continues. The 300s, 7D, and K7-5 were all great.

12-12-2012, 03:10 PM   #647
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QuoteOriginally posted by NickLarsson Quote
About FF MILCs
Let me see... they must work on:
- new APS-C cameras and lenses (their main market)
- digital medium format (don't leave the only such stabilized system starving)
- the "full frame" technologies (with included optical viewfinder) they were talking about
- Q
- the modular GXR thingie
- compacts
- some funky 360 degrees yo-yo cameras
Sorry, there's no room for a FF MILC
12-12-2012, 04:24 PM   #648
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Well the K5-II is a nice overhaul, but you said it yourself its an OVERHAUL

but you are right to some point. at the moment iam just sad about the lenses and how slow in terms of AF they are
or how unsure the AF is sometimes if i try to do landscape panoramas with the DA*300....


Yeah Pentax is not the competition and i like them for that, but, beeing unique be leaving features like tethering out isnt they way it is supposed to be, is it?
Sorry, but i really like/enjoy this feature and not having it in the K5 just annoys me soooo much...
12-12-2012, 04:39 PM   #649
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
They wouldn't be competing with Leica, Fuji or Sony even if they did go MILC FF
Why not Sony?

Pentax could build a better quality camera than Sony, but not with as many belles & whistles, or at the price though

12-12-2012, 06:21 PM   #650
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I guess I don't understand. You are a big proponent of MILC cameras, which other than Nikon's 1 series, suck at AF-C. If it isn't a big deal for Panasonic and Olympus, why is it a big deal for Pentax?
I brought AF-C as a clear case of inferiority for Pentax. But even AF-S is inferior and it is actually inferior to MILCs.

That being said, I already saw that AF-C performance is one of the things that Canon/Nikon users are looking at when they are considering MILCs. So it is held against MILCs and you don't have to wonder why it is held against Pentax. But MILCs still offer some advantages to a Canon/Nikon user that they just cannot get from a DSLR, so they'll get more attention than a Pentax DSLR will.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Finally, it is not the motor driven lenses that are the issue. A lens like the DA 40 is as fast as anything that Nikon/Canon has to offer, even with their awesome in-lens motors. The issue is a lot more to do with focus throw (very long on some Pentax lenses, I guess to help with manual focusing) and size of lens elements.
Yes, that's why Canon lenses have focusing by wire. Mirrorless lenses are similar too.
12-12-2012, 07:36 PM   #651
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
it perhaps a bit faster too; add the smaller AF points and better AF algorithms and you're getting a pretty good advantage. Kit lenses are perhaps better too. I played once with the long Nikon kit lens and it felt much more competent than my DA 50-200 - it was focusing more accurately and the results looked sharper too.
This is quite deceptive.
The screen o/p on the Nikons boost up saturation and sharpness quite a bit, making them look real good on the LCD review.
Perhaps its a marketing 'gimmick' so that when a layman compares camera o/p in a store via LCD, they will falsely conclude that the Nikon is better.
The K30 has taken this route for its LCD display too. (unfortunately)
I prefer a more 'true' to what was taken LCD review to better gauge the taken results.

I've compared often with my friends D90 and D7K.
LCD always see to kick the K5's butt, but when I reviewed them on PC, it was a different story.
12-12-2012, 07:40 PM   #652
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Yes, that's why Canon lenses have focusing by wire. Mirrorless lenses are similar too.
Its a trade off.
No pleasing everyone.
I think its this dilemma that Pentax faces when designing their lenses and perhaps trying to find a balance (between MF ability and more AF competent focus by wire)
Thats what makes their lenses different too.


Perhaps the best way it to have both a focus by wire AF line and a 'ltd' 'balanced' MF/AF line.
But that would mean lots of resources/time/money/inventory.
12-12-2012, 08:40 PM   #653
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
This is quite deceptive.
The screen o/p on the Nikons boost up saturation and sharpness quite a bit, making them look real good on the LCD review.
Well, that can make the results look nicer, but it cannot really hide focusing errors when zooming into the image.

QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Its a trade off.
No pleasing everyone.
I don't think there is much future in AF lenses that do not use focus-by-wire. Whether that will please everyone is another issue.

12-12-2012, 10:53 PM   #654
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Well, that can make the results look nicer, but it cannot really hide focusing errors when zooming into the image.



I don't think there is much future in AF lenses that do not use focus-by-wire. Whether that will please everyone is another issue.

I can't speak for what you saw/compared, but for my numerous reviews of my friend's Nikons, its not as day and night as what you saw (and we do have monthly photography outings)


Tell that to Leica
In a way, I agree.
If AF was fast and generally accurate enough, I see the need for tactile MF less and less.
But then again, one or two generations of old fogies who have experienced MF fist hand need to die off first before its universally accepted as a norm.

Personally, I don't really care for how it goes.
I'm happy with my K30 and G3 with the AF.
I'm equally appreciative that my 5D with M42 lenses also take photos (w/o the AF)
12-12-2012, 11:25 PM   #655
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
That's interesting. Showing Canonikon FF against Pentax sales, on the top 50 DSLRs on Amazon in the UK the positions are

1 D3100
9 D800
10 Pentax X5
17 5D Mark II
33 5D Mark III
35 D600
36 K30
38 K5
49 K30

So the D600 might not be doing as well as Nikon were hoping here, hence the price adjustments downwards. The Pentax X5 is a bit of an anomaly, not being a DSLR and being sold off cheap at 173 pounds. In France, traditionally popular for Pentax, the top 50 Amazon positions are

1 D3200
17 D600
19 K30
22 K30
24 D800
28 K30
33 K5
40 5D Mark II
47 K5 II

Otherwise, yes, the lists are dominated by Canonikon. In Amazon in Germany, Canon seems much more popular but FF not so popular and the highest Pentax is a K30 at #60. However, it seems that compared to Europe Pentax in North America have their work cut out

On Amazon in Japan, FWIW, the Amazon top 50 lists have

1 D5100
4 Q
8 Q
19 Q
25 Q
31 Q
36 6D FF
39 K-01
42 5D Mark II
44 K5 Silver ed.

Not directly comparable, perhaps, since they conflate ILC and DSLR and so the list is full of PENs and Nikon Vs. The Nikon FFs are not in the top 50 sellers as a result, the D800E coming at #52 and the D600 at #57.
Those lists don't tell you how many units difference there is between one position to the next do they?

Last edited by Louicio; 12-12-2012 at 11:26 PM. Reason: Added information
12-12-2012, 11:32 PM   #656
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrPetkus Quote
Ash - that would be nice. I've analyzed the specs on the latest crop of FF offerings and the wonderful scenario you describe is reserved for the upper-tier pro bodies like the D4 and 1DX.
Everyone has different needs. I want a nimble, extremely responsive camera - high FPS and fast AF. I see an opportunity to get a decent sports cam on the cheap ($1.7k) with APS-C.
Until I can justify a D4 or 1DX, I hope the trend of churning out higher-performance, relatively inexpensive semi-pro APS-Cs continues. The 300s, 7D, and K7-5 were all great.
I do think its plausible for Pentax to have a $2.5-3k FF camera that's well presented and gives those flagship Canikons a run for their money. The 5D and D600 aren't as great as I'd want a FF body to be. But the D800 and D4 are. That's where I think Pentax can challenge the FF market. Not necessarily to out-spec them, but to give value for money.
12-13-2012, 04:14 AM   #657
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
I brought AF-C as a clear case of inferiority for Pentax. But even AF-S is inferior and it is actually inferior to MILCs.

That being said, I already saw that AF-C performance is one of the things that Canon/Nikon users are looking at when they are considering MILCs. So it is held against MILCs and you don't have to wonder why it is held against Pentax. But MILCs still offer some advantages to a Canon/Nikon user that they just cannot get from a DSLR, so they'll get more attention than a Pentax DSLR will.



Yes, that's why Canon lenses have focusing by wire. Mirrorless lenses are similar too.
I will just say this and let it go. There have been a number of studies looking at auto focus continuous which showed the K5 to be equal to or better than the 7D and D7000 (this preceded the K5 II release). One was in a German magazine, the other in Chasseur d'Images. Believe what you want, but there is a lot less separating Pentax from Canon/Nikon in the auto focus department these days. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/154373-pentax-k-5-exce...ml#post1604409
12-13-2012, 06:17 AM   #658
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Yes, that's why Canon lenses have focusing by wire.
I don't think that's the case.
12-13-2012, 08:51 AM   #659
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Yes, that's why Canon lenses have focusing by wire.
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I don't think that's the case.
I believe the only current focus by wire Canon lens is the 85/1.2.

The trouble with focus by wire lenses is if the focus motor gives out and can't be replaced, they immediately become landfill material. Such lenses are not necessarily lifetime investments.There are rumors going around the net that there are no more focus motors for the legendary Canon 200/1.8. That is also a focus by wire lens; and when the motor goes out it becomes unusable, even as a manual focus lens.
12-13-2012, 09:03 AM   #660
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
That is also a focus by wire lens; and when the motor goes out it becomes unusable, even as a manual focus lens.
Greg, in one simple sentence, you've managed to make SDM seem like a relatively good proposition!
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