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12-14-2012, 02:50 PM   #676
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Well, the web is worldwide and these articles are posted widely on the Pentax forums.
It doesn't matter - it's information circulated within a closed world - that of existing Pentax users.

The only way that a first time DSLR buyer is even going to consider Pentax is if he gets in touch with someone that uses Pentax. I see a lot of requests from such people - they usually already decided for Canon or Nikon - rarely did they consider another brand - and they have a budget of under $1000 usually, which would exclude cameras like K-5 at launch time. Forget about them going to check Pentax forums even if they do hear about Pentax. Who cares what Chasseur d'images or some German magazine (whose name seems to not even be remembered) have to say about a high end Pentax cameras, when one already knows that Canon/Nikon are "the best"?

Remember, we're not really discussing here if Pentax can match Canon/Nikon, but why are people not buying Pentax. I am trying to provide an explanation for the questions that Sol Invictus asked pages earlier in this thread:

QuoteOriginally posted by Sol Invictus Quote
This worries me a lot too. The K5 is one of if not the best APSC body out there and it really doesn't make a dent in the Canikon juggernaut. It gets fantastic reviews everywhere yet it's the D7000s and T4is that are flying off the shelf. How much better does the Pentax FF have to be to get some attention? And the D800 is such a fantastic camera that I don't see how Pentax can beat it in the first place. Someone up thread mentioned that if Pentax created an K5 like FF, it would give Canikon fanboys nightmares. Frankly, I doubt they would even notice.

The good news is that Pentax appears to have seen the light in some respects. We are seeing more advertising here and there. It can only get better.
Advertising is one step, but advertising only attracts attention - you need to be able to sustain it once it is turned to your products. Providing entry level products with great performance and providing intriguing products for enthusiasts are also needed.

12-14-2012, 03:22 PM   #677
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
It doesn't matter - it's information circulated within a closed world - that of existing Pentax users.

The only way that a first time DSLR buyer is even going to consider Pentax is if he gets in touch with someone that uses Pentax. I see a lot of requests from such people - they usually already decided for Canon or Nikon - rarely did they consider another brand - and they have a budget of under $1000 usually, which would exclude cameras like K-5 at launch time. Forget about them going to check Pentax forums even if they do hear about Pentax. Who cares what Chasseur d'images or some German magazine (whose name seems to not even be remembered) have to say about a high end Pentax cameras, when one already knows that Canon/Nikon are "the best"?

Remember, we're not really discussing here if Pentax can match Canon/Nikon, but why are people not buying Pentax. I am trying to provide an explanation for the questions that Sol Invictus asked pages earlier in this thread:



Advertising is one step, but advertising only attracts attention - you need to be able to sustain it once it is turned to your products. Providing entry level products with great performance and providing intriguing products for enthusiasts are also needed.
We are getting far afield from discussion of full frame cameras, but I think that the K30 is a killer camera. Unbeatable for the price. If Pentax sold it hard to hikers/outdoors folks, I don't think they would have a problem in the world selling it. The drum has been pounded for a long time that Pentax products aren't up to those of Nikon/Canon, but they are. Having a small, well built, weather sealed camera with dual wheels for 600-ish dollars beats anything else in the same bracket. The problem is that people don't know about it, not that it isn't a good match for the D5200 or, anything that Canon has to offer in the same price range.
12-14-2012, 07:49 PM   #678
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
We are getting far afield from discussion of full frame cameras, but I think that the K30 is a killer camera.
FF is still relevant because Pentax could provide something that no one is offering yet: a FF MILC. That would be a way to get attention from higher end users.

The K-30 with lenses jumps over $700 and at that point you have to get people to pay attention to the special features over the brand awareness. In MFT world you can get an E-PL2 for $300. For entry level users Pentax needs an entry level camera and the K-30 is not that.
12-14-2012, 09:25 PM   #679
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
FF is still relevant because Pentax could provide something that no one is offering yet: a FF MILC. That would be a way to get attention from higher end users.

The K-30 with lenses jumps over $700 and at that point you have to get people to pay attention to the special features over the brand awareness. In MFT world you can get an E-PL2 for $300. For entry level users Pentax needs an entry level camera and the K-30 is not that.
I think the E-PL2 is out of production (not sure, I admit). No question the K-01 (instead of the K-30) and E-PL5 play in the same space as they both have 16 MP Sony sensors. The Oly is priced at $550 w/ lens through B&H whereas you can pick up the Pentax plus lens for less as of now.

12-15-2012, 12:55 AM   #680
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
I think the E-PL2 is out of production (not sure, I admit). No question the K-01 (instead of the K-30) and E-PL5 play in the same space as they both have 16 MP Sony sensors. The Oly is priced at $550 w/ lens through B&H whereas you can pick up the Pentax plus lens for less as of now.
And Oly has a smaller sensor too
12-15-2012, 02:40 AM   #681
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
a FF MILC
Ugh. Why bother with that.
Why would such an object make any sense?
12-15-2012, 02:55 AM   #682
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Some photographers are keen on an EVF, and others on the thinner flange. Others still just want Pentax to enter the FF market by having no competition since for some reason competing against Canon and Nikon is setting them up for failure. I say a dSLR FF model with specs to build on the K-5 II will be a successful camera for Pentax for a while.
12-15-2012, 03:04 AM   #683
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Ugh. Why bother with that.
Why would such an object make any sense?
If it could be the same size as the RX1 I think a lot of folks could be interested.

If I had the money I would buy a RX1 that fits in my pocket over a D800 any day. I just don't see the fun in carrying +2 kg of gear all the day.

Moreover, one of the feature that people say it makes them stay with Pentax is "lightweight, smaller body".

So yeah, it would make sense I guess.

12-15-2012, 03:20 AM   #684
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QuoteOriginally posted by NickLarsson Quote
RX1 that fits in my pocket
You must have big (and deep ) pockets. The RX-1 is a bit too big for pocketability.
12-15-2012, 03:54 AM   #685
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FF lenses generally aren't pocketable. Pentax have a few unique Ltd lenses that are very small for their capability, but I don't see many Ltd lenses going into pockets (too valuable not to go into a camera bag). The K-01 is about as pocketable as it gets for a K-mount setup. No one wants to lug around heavy gear but the reality is that with larger formats there needs to be larger glass, especially in the fast zoom variety.
12-15-2012, 09:24 AM   #686
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QuoteOriginally posted by NickLarsson Quote
If it could be the same size as the RX1 I think a lot of folks could be interested.
Sony has done research on this, and apparently not many people are interested. From CNET Asia:

QuoteQuote:
It seems that while consumers and photographers may think that an RX1 with interchangeable lenses would be incredibly flexible and that there would be substantial demand for such a camera, Sony's research has suggested otherwise. "From our surveys, the types of customers that want an interchangeable lens camera and a premium compact are different," Katsumoto shared.
Another problem is that a compact FF ILC would not be terribly practical as a system, since, as mentioned in previous posts, FF lenses are often just too big to be used effectively in a compact system. The m43rd system is fast becoming the most popular compact ILC system. The primary reason for that is that the 4/3rds sensor is just small enough to keep the lenses (even the fast zooms) small, while being large enough to get decent quality. In other words, the sensor is optimal in size for a compact ILC system.

If we do see an FF MILC, it will be like the K-01, except with an FF sensor, a viewfinder, and a more conventional design. But it doesn't appear that the market is ready for that product yet. Most people willing to buy an FF camera still want an optical view finder.
12-15-2012, 09:38 AM   #687
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
FF is still relevant because Pentax could provide something that no one is offering yet: a FF MILC. That would be a way to get attention from higher end users.

The K-30 with lenses jumps over $700 and at that point you have to get people to pay attention to the special features over the brand awareness. In MFT world you can get an E-PL2 for $300. For entry level users Pentax needs an entry level camera and the K-30 is not that.
I wouldn't switch lens mounts for a Pentax MILC.
12-15-2012, 10:25 AM   #688
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
If we do see an FF MILC, it will be like the K-01, except with an FF sensor, a viewfinder, and a more conventional design. But it doesn't appear that the market is ready for that product yet. Most people willing to buy an FF camera still want an optical view finder.
I'm in favor for this. Even as a FF K-01.


(lets call this K-11)
12-15-2012, 01:05 PM   #689
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sol Invictus Quote
This worries me a lot too. The K5 is one of if not the best APSC body out there and it really doesn't make a dent in the Canikon juggernaut. It gets fantastic reviews everywhere yet it's the D7000s and T4is that are flying off the shelf. How much better does the Pentax FF have to be to get some attention? And the D800 is such a fantastic camera that I don't see how Pentax can beat it in the first place. Someone up thread mentioned that if Pentax created an K5 like FF, it would give Canikon fanboys nightmares. Frankly, I doubt they would even notice.

The good news is that Pentax appears to have seen the light in some respects. We are seeing more advertising here and there. It can only get better.
QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
It doesn't matter - it's information circulated within a closed world - that of existing Pentax users.

The only way that a first time DSLR buyer is even going to consider Pentax is if he gets in touch with someone that uses Pentax. I see a lot of requests from such people - they usually already decided for Canon or Nikon - rarely did they consider another brand - and they have a budget of under $1000 usually, which would exclude cameras like K-5 at launch time. Forget about them going to check Pentax forums even if they do hear about Pentax. Who cares what Chasseur d'images or some German magazine (whose name seems to not even be remembered) have to say about a high end Pentax cameras, when one already knows that Canon/Nikon are "the best"?

Remember, we're not really discussing here if Pentax can match Canon/Nikon, but why are people not buying Pentax. I am trying to provide an explanation for the questions that Sol Invictus asked pages earlier in this thread:



Advertising is one step, but advertising only attracts attention - you need to be able to sustain it once it is turned to your products. Providing entry level products with great performance and providing intriguing products for enthusiasts are also needed.

That's the reason behind Pentax decision to go slow but sure and not jump into FF without doing the homework!!
12-15-2012, 01:15 PM - 1 Like   #690
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
Sony has done research on this, and apparently not many people are interested. From CNET Asia:



Another problem is that a compact FF ILC would not be terribly practical as a system, since, as mentioned in previous posts, FF lenses are often just too big to be used effectively in a compact system. The m43rd system is fast becoming the most popular compact ILC system. The primary reason for that is that the 4/3rds sensor is just small enough to keep the lenses (even the fast zooms) small, while being large enough to get decent quality. In other words, the sensor is optimal in size for a compact ILC system.

If we do see an FF MILC, it will be like the K-01, except with an FF sensor, a viewfinder, and a more conventional design. But it doesn't appear that the market is ready for that product yet. Most people willing to buy an FF camera still want an optical view finder.
There are plenty of FF m-mount lenses that are compact.
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