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01-01-2013, 05:09 PM   #1096
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I am sure the pros already found the advantages of MILCs, where they are suited. Yet somehow there is still room for the DSLRs...

01-01-2013, 05:30 PM   #1097
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
lol well there is the Chinese Horus Bennu 50mm f1.7 lens, which is not bad. Just, you know, Chinese and super cheap. But its K mount and has good IQ, and metal build. The problem is that even if you manage to get good quality and QC in China, people are still biased against it. Would be interesting, though, if a Japanese company can use Chinese labour well enough to compete against other Japanese and western production.
Olympus seems to be doing alright, right now..All I want is a FF with AF tracking equal to the 7D and the ability to crop the sensor to 1.5x at 16mp thats under 2800.00..

Last edited by dane.dawg; 01-01-2013 at 05:40 PM.
01-01-2013, 05:57 PM   #1098
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I am sure the pros already found the advantages of MILCs, where they are suited. Yet somehow there is still room for the DSLRs...
Has anyone ever said otherwise?
01-01-2013, 06:09 PM   #1099
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Has anyone ever said otherwise?
Yes. Trawl through the last few pages of this thread and see the doomsday talk of the soon to be obsolete dSLR technology that should be swiftly replaced by MILC.
It doesn't matter. The market, and market research, will determine what products will come out. The current poll in this forum looking into members' desires for a succeeding camera model reflects current dSLR to MILC sale rates. So MILC is destined to be a stable market rather than a growing one, at least for the next few years (according to these selective stats).

01-01-2013, 08:18 PM   #1100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Yes. Trawl through the last few pages of this thread and see the doomsday talk of the soon to be obsolete dSLR technology that should be swiftly replaced by MILC.
It doesn't matter. The market, and market research, will determine what products will come out. The current poll in this forum looking into members' desires for a succeeding camera model reflects current dSLR to MILC sale rates. So MILC is destined to be a stable market rather than a growing one, at least for the next few years (according to these selective stats).
Ash, I'll confess to being a little dense trying to pick up the connection between the poll and market trends. The poll is basically asking a bunch of Pentax DSLR enthusiasts if they want their next camera to be a Pentax DSLR. I would be surprised if the poll results were anything different no matter what may or may not be changing in the market. Maybe more succinctly, if you asked the same question four years ago the results would have suggested the MILC market wouldn't exist today.
01-01-2013, 10:41 PM - 1 Like   #1101
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Has anyone ever said otherwise?
He is only reading what he wants to read.
01-02-2013, 12:05 AM   #1102
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It's still important to ask the question because it is these same users who will go on to invest more and more into the brand. So it would make sense to address the current user base's needs. New users are good but they too should be given good reason to stick with the brand. And addressing what the current users wants is a fair way of achieving this.
01-02-2013, 02:35 AM   #1103
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Most likely, you'll never use a camera long enough to hit such "sensor fatigue" issues. You'll want to get the new model with more processing power and faster everything, rather than stick around with the old one until you start noticing sensor failures.
It's just subjective judgement, but I'm pretty sure that my daughter's more than 5,5 years old K100D (which I think has been through at least 30000 shots now, probably more - but with no live view, of course) has worse high ISO noise now than when it was new. And of course (and the same applies to my 5 year old K10D) it has more hot pixels than when it was new.

01-02-2013, 04:52 AM   #1104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
It's still important to ask the question because it is these same users who will go on to invest more and more into the brand. So it would make sense to address the current user base's needs. New users are good but they too should be given good reason to stick with the brand. And addressing what the current users wants is a fair way of achieving this.
What the current forrum userbase wants and what the userbase in the wide wide world will actually buy are two different things. An FF DSLR is wanted by more than 50 per cent of the forum users who voted in your poll but in reality probably only 5 per cent of the whole Pentax userbase in the wide world would buy it (broadly as with Canonikon's FF sales). Inversely, a camera targeted at women might sell to ten times more buyers than it would to members of this forum who are nearly all men and very often "of a certain age".

It's hard not to look at the Sony RX1 and sigh. A beautiful camera, a perfect machine, a lens of stupendous quality - it's all there for Pentax if they want it. I don't think there was an option for a fixed-lens camera in your poll? The key to all of this, imho, is "Not enough sales? Well, build a better camera then Mr Pentax". Most users won't invest more in the brand in the forms of lenses and accessories because they hardly ever buy them. But build better cameras and they might well buy another Pentax when their first one has had its day.
01-02-2013, 04:54 AM   #1105
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
It's still important to ask the question because it is these same users who will go on to invest more and more into the brand. So it would make sense to address the current user base's needs. New users are good but they too should be given good reason to stick with the brand. And addressing what the current users wants is a fair way of achieving this.
Indeed, they should do their best at keeping such people into the system. We might be "a bunch of Pentax enthusiasts", but we're their best chance at selling high end (i.e. large margins) products.
Surprisingly, typical MILC users who couldn't care less about Pentax and Pentax products aren't.

gazonk, 5.5 years old? I wouldn't be surprised. And the MILCs are made to degrade even faster... full time LV, planned obsolescence...

mecrox, it's not entirely irrelevant though not a valid statistics. The results shows that people here, the "bunch of enthusiasts", are waiting for more advanced Pentax cameras - and Pentax should and will act on that. What's the alternative, to simply let us jump ship?
The key of having a better Sony RX1 is to ask Sony to make a better RX1. Or Hasselblad, maybe they can help you.
01-02-2013, 05:00 AM   #1106
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
gazonk, 5.5 years old? I wouldn't be surprised. And the MILCs are made to degrade even faster... full time LV, planned obsolescence...
And still MILCs were portrayed as longer-lasting earlier in this thread... I don't say mirrors can't fail - I do happen to have an LX with a sticky mirror problem getting worse now, but after all that camera is more than 30 years old. But my equally old ME Super and my wife's somewhat younger ME Super have no mechanical problems at all.
01-02-2013, 05:07 AM   #1107
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
And still MILCs were portrayed as longer-lasting earlier in this thread... I don't say mirrors can't fail - I do happen to have an LX with a sticky mirror problem getting worse now, but after all that camera is more than 30 years old. But my equally old ME Super and my wife's somewhat younger ME Super have no mechanical problems at all.
Funny you mention the famous LX sticky mirror problem, I had a student who was so proud of her new 5D MkIII - when in the middle of shooting a model for a portrait class during a lens change the mirror literally fell out of her camera. On the subject of the longevity of mirror less cameras: my Leica M3 is well over 50 years old now, granted it has had the shutter curtains replaced twice. I still use it when i'm doing street photography.

Last edited by Digitalis; 01-02-2013 at 05:54 AM.
01-02-2013, 05:13 AM   #1108
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Mirrors can definitely fail, but I'm hearing about shutters much more often. Of course, there are exceptions, like the 5D's falling mirrors.
I've had several electric components to fail, after not too many years of usage; computer power supplies (become unable to provide the required power), motherboards and so on.
Now, what are you saying, that a camera needs maintenance? We were made to forget about this, expecting to change them anyway after few years. Your LX would probably be fine, after a CLA.

Digitalis, a digital MILC would have slightly more electronics inside than the M3
01-02-2013, 05:15 AM   #1109
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Indeed, they should do their best at keeping such people into the system. We might be "a bunch of Pentax enthusiasts", but we're their best chance at selling high end (i.e. large margins) products.
Surprisingly, typical MILC users who couldn't care less about Pentax and Pentax products aren't.

gazonk, 5.5 years old? I wouldn't be surprised. And the MILCs are made to degrade even faster... full time LV, planned obsolescence...

mecrox, it's not entirely irrelevant though not a valid statistics. The results shows that people here, the "bunch of enthusiasts", are waiting for more advanced Pentax cameras - and Pentax should and will act on that. What's the alternative, to simply let us jump ship?
The key of having a better Sony RX1 is to ask Sony to make a better RX1. Or Hasselblad, maybe they can help you.
Lol, but come off it. If Pentax had produced some of the ideas Sony have had (and don't forget their sensors), folks on here would be ecstatic - NEX, RX100, RX1. I think Pentax need to aim higher than cranking out evolutionary products. There's nothing wrong with those at all but they don't catch people's attention. And I really doubt the Olympus OM-D E-M5 (which has caught people's attention) is "made to degrade even faster". Consumer camera bodies from any maker aren't really built to last these days although Pentax fairs very well in this department.
01-02-2013, 05:28 AM   #1110
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
There's nothing wrong with those at all but they don't catch people's attention.
Attention-grabbing is why I voted for a new 645D as the first new camera I want from Pentax in the ongoing survey (I didn't notice "that you intend to buy" qualifier first - but I don't intend to replace my K-5 in the next 2-3 years anyway, unless I suddenly get very rich).

QuoteQuote:
And I really doubt the Olympus OM-D E-M5 (which has caught people's attention) is "made to degrade even faster". Consumer camera bodies from any maker aren't really built to last these days although Pentax fairs very well in this department.
Yes, despite K-5 shutter buttons and a few other problems, they're still well built, as my Daughter's K100D proves (it has survived a few drops, too).
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