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01-28-2013, 02:24 PM   #1246
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
I don't know if I'm right or not, but I always assumed camera makers just bought shutter assemblies from a supplier like Seiko or Nidec Copal.

Focal plane shutters with 1/250 sync capability obviously exist, and could probably be acquired by Pentax from their supplier, but I suspect there's some combination of cost, power budget, vibration, size, etc. that results in the selection of 1/180 instead.
Now now, lets not let logic and reasoning get in the way of a good argument!

01-28-2013, 02:54 PM   #1247
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
Focal plane shutters with 1/250 sync capability obviously exist, and could probably be acquired by Pentax from their supplier, but I suspect there's some combination of cost, power budget, vibration, size, etc. that results in the selection of 1/180 instead.
IIRC the difference is actually due to the SR mechanism; with a fixed sensor, the K-5's shutter would be able to sync at 1/250.
01-28-2013, 03:16 PM   #1248
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
IIRC the difference is actually due to the SR mechanism; with a fixed sensor, the K-5's shutter would be able to sync at 1/250.
I'm liking my in lens shutter thing even more now!

Regards,
01-28-2013, 04:28 PM   #1249
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
Let's not forget sound. I'd really not like to give up my quiet shutter simply for the sake of a faster sync speed which I would rarely use.
100% agree. From what I've heard a D600 is a quiet Nikon, which if true is shocking.

01-28-2013, 04:51 PM   #1250
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
IIRC the difference is actually due to the SR mechanism; with a fixed sensor, the K-5's shutter would be able to sync at 1/250.
Would be quite good if they allowed you to turn that on / off or enabled 1/250th when SR disabled.
01-28-2013, 06:58 PM   #1251
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
IIRC the difference is actually due to the SR mechanism; with a fixed sensor, the K-5's shutter would be able to sync at 1/250.
It mostly has to do with the shutter curtain speed itself and not SR per se.

Even with Nikon's 1/250 flash output drops, so distance becomes major factor (half and half again). Nicely explained here:

http://neilvn.com/tangents/maximum-flash-sync-speed/



In short, high speed sync over 1/160 on any mechanical shutter curtain camera is going to suffer from degradation in output as the flash has to sync on for the duration of the 2 curtains travel.

Some models have used combined mechanical/electronic shutters (Nikon D70 I believe) with limited success.

I expect we will see HSS on Pentax in the future. Its quirkiness and the design changes and consumer education it requires are not mainstream and likely not economical to put into place.
01-28-2013, 08:37 PM   #1252
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Maybe nostalgia isn't what it used to be,
but personally,
I prefer the green hexagon on the APS-C porrofinder of a K-x
to the microprisms of an old Spotmatic.
There were a lot of finders in between and after that I liked better. I'd say the MX and LX are up there.

Personally, I'm not a hug fan of the hexagon for manual focus. It stays on when focus is not at its best. Focus peaking is another matter though. That is a system that puts more fun back into manual focus.
01-28-2013, 10:20 PM   #1253
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
There were a lot of finders in between and after that I liked better. I'd say the MX and LX are up there.

When it comes to viewfinders I find the ME super and LX* difficult to beat, thought the Contax Aria was fantastic as well. Such a shame Contax didn't survive in the transition to digital, their cameras were great.

*especially with all the extra viewfinder accessories you could get for it, just one of the many reasons why the LX was so awesome.

01-29-2013, 12:15 AM   #1254
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
It mostly has to do with the shutter curtain speed itself and not SR per se.
I know how focal plane shutter works. The sync speed is the slowest for which that "fully open" situation is possible, and I'm thinking that, with SR, a larger gap (than the sensor's height) is required, thus the slower sync speed. The sync speed is of course determined by the gap and the curtains travel speed.
I read something on that line years ago, though I can't remember the details and the context; so it's not a hard fact, but IMO a plausible hypothesis.
01-29-2013, 01:01 AM   #1255
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
There were a lot of finders in between and after that I liked better. I'd say the MX and LX are up there.
Right, the LX with the split wedge worked much better than the microprisms, at least for most lenses.

QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Personally, I'm not a hug fan of the hexagon for manual focus. It stays on when focus is not at its best.
For best results, you do need to be aware of how it works.

QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Focus peaking is another matter though. That is a system that puts more fun back into manual focus.
Good to know.
But it doesn't seem to help if you're following action with an OVF.
01-29-2013, 05:17 AM   #1256
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
It mostly has to do with the shutter curtain speed itself and not SR per se.

Even with Nikon's 1/250 flash output drops, so distance becomes major factor (half and half again). Nicely explained here:

http://neilvn.com/tangents/maximum-flash-sync-speed/



In short, high speed sync over 1/160 on any mechanical shutter curtain camera is going to suffer from degradation in output as the flash has to sync on for the duration of the 2 curtains travel.

Some models have used combined mechanical/electronic shutters (Nikon D70 I believe) with limited success.

I expect we will see HSS on Pentax in the future. Its quirkiness and the design changes and consumer education it requires are not mainstream and likely not economical to put into place.

I don't understand your post.
I know HSS causes a loss of power. That's not the problem. The problem is that (most probably) the SR is the culprit for the 1/180 sync speed. Sony had (has?) cams which with SteadyShot disabled permitted a higher sync speed.

Secondly, well HSS is already available in Pentax system.

But I may have gotten your post completely wrong
01-29-2013, 05:36 AM   #1257
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
The problem is that (most probably) the SR is the culprit for the 1/180 sync speed.
No, it isn't. Even with a natively supported synch speed of 1/250th there is a loss of flash output. As things stand HSS will be with us for a while yet, until global shutters are more common in larger sensors.
01-29-2013, 05:52 AM   #1258
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Doesn't Olympus also have an in camera body image stabilization that is actually considered superior to Pentax SR? Yet the Olympus E-5 offers 1/250th flash; and I was specifically told by Olympus at a trade show releatively recently that they could have even offered 1/500th - but did not. Their reasoning was that it was an effort to try to save money on the already high priced camera - (as in) higher priced given the size of the sensor.

Btw if there ever is a next version of the E-5 from Olympus or whomever purchases the camera company - then it is almost expected that it will have 1/500th flash, but... At that speed expect very limited flash range even with something such as the GN of a Metz 76
01-29-2013, 05:55 AM   #1259
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QuoteOriginally posted by Medium FormatPro Quote
et the Olympus E-5 offers 1/250th flash; and I was specifically told by Olympus at a trade show releatively recently that they could have even offered 1/500th
that is easy to do with such a small sensor.
01-29-2013, 06:00 AM   #1260
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But I also keep reading the claims that Pentax would have an issue with in body SR if going fullframe and that they need all of the room both around the sensor and also behind it. Yet guess what - there's actually plenty of room for it.

Pentax could very easily make a fullframe that is actually smaller than the entry level fullframe from Nikon or also about the size of the Sony model. And here's the one that could have a bit of buzz to it - Pentax could also do a fullframe for less than twenty-two hundred.

But what's sad...

Even if Pentax would never have plans for a fullframe -why not come out and admit it. Or better yet give the PK license to someone for fullframe and watch where it goes
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