FF Under Development

**zplus** · 11-01-2012, 11:06 AM - **1 Like**

My post from a longggggggggg time ago may be of use for comparing.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/61827-comparison-3...lots-pics.html

Cannikin · 11-01-2012, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

Vignetting - yes. Crappy around the outside - I've yet to see a FF lens that has worse LP/PH values in FF than in APS-C, when comparing reasonable FF and APS-C cameras.

Well search no further!

Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 USM L (full format) - Review / Test Report - Analysis
Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 USM L - Review / Test Report - Analysis

And note this is a comparison between a 21mp FF and a puny 8mp APS-C, and the APS-C still wins at large apertures in the absolute (as opposed to relative/scaled) border lw/ph figures that you seem so concerned about. If this comparison were done with one of Canon's 18mp APS-C sensors, I have no doubt the APS-C border would crush the FF at any aperture.

ElJamoquio · 11-01-2012, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by Cannikin

Well search no further!

Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 USM L (full format) - Review / Test Report - Analysis
Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 USM L - Review / Test Report - Analysis

And note this is a comparison between a 21mp FF and a puny 8mp APS-C, and the APS-C still wins at large apertures in the absolute (as opposed to relative/scaled) border lw/ph figures that you seem so concerned about. If this comparison were done with one of Canon's 18mp APS-C sensors, I have no doubt the APS-C border would crush the FF at any aperture.

You are correct, at less than F/2 on that lens, the APS-C wins at border performance.

Personally I wouldn't have even looked at that comparison to begin with because I would (basically) never use that setting. Perhaps a night landscape with nothing in the foreground?

Thanks, though.

Medium FormatPro · 11-01-2012, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

at less than F/2 on that lens, the APS-C wins at border performance

This is a swell example of what a lens is capable of; even when exceeding F 1.0

Leica 50mm f/0.95 Noctilux-M Aspherical Manual Focus Lens 11-602

RonHendriks1966 · 11-01-2012, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Cannikin

Well search no further!

Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 USM L (full format) - Review / Test Report - Analysis
Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 USM L - Review / Test Report - Analysis

And note this is a comparison between a 21mp FF and a puny 8mp APS-C, and the APS-C still wins at large apertures in the absolute (as opposed to relative/scaled) border lw/ph figures that you seem so concerned about. If this comparison were done with one of Canon's 18mp APS-C sensors, I have no doubt the APS-C border would crush the FF at any aperture.

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

You are correct, at less than F/2 on that lens, the APS-C wins at border performance.

Personally I wouldn't have even looked at that comparison to begin with because I would (basically) never use that setting. Perhaps a night landscape with nothing in the foreground?

Thanks, though.

This test is actually one more reason not to go FF, but to stop at aps-H!

eryson · 11-01-2012, 02:53 PM

Hopefully, FF will be released next year with body SR function

eryson · 11-01-2012, 02:54 PM

And all the SDM lenses will be replaced with new DC

normhead · 11-01-2012, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by eryson

And all the SDM lenses will be replaced with new DC

You do know that SDM has officially been fixed don't you? Actually it's been for quite a while, I bought my DA*60-250 quite a while ago and I know of no SDM issues with that lens. Pentax has said the 16-50 has been redesigned.

ElJamoquio · 11-01-2012, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by Medium FormatPro

This is a swell example of what a lens is capable of; even when exceeding F 1.0

Leica 50mm f/0.95 Noctilux-M Aspherical Manual Focus Lens 11-602

You're right, I have seen some awesome f/0.95 pics. I don't know that I would care about border performance in any of them, though.

Sorry for forgetting to mention that caveat - I was trying to figure out a picture where I would care about border performance but would still want a very low aperture. Seems like a rather rare picture.

ElJamoquio · 11-01-2012, 03:18 PM

Found one, maybe...

http://overgaard.dk/thorstenovergaardcom_copyrighted_graphics/leica-noctilux..._GIFT_640w.jpg

leica.overgaard.dk - Thorsten Overgaard's Leica Pages - Leica 50mm Noctilux-M ASPH f/0.95 - Leitz 50mm Noctilux-M f/1.2 and the Leica 50mm Noctilux-M f/1.0 samples and article

Winder · 11-01-2012, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by normhead

You do know that SDM has officially been fixed don't you? Actually it's been for quite a while, I bought my DA*60-250 quite a while ago and I know of no SDM issues with that lens. Pentax has said the 16-50 has been redesigned.

Can you link to an official statement from Pentax regarding the SDM issues?

eastman · 11-01-2012, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by markac

Foster's has never really been all that popular here In Australia, at least since the Barry McKenzie days. Much better beers to be had like Cooper's for instance

I always preferred XXXX over Foster's. Haven't had either one in years. Was disappointed to go to an Outback steakhouse this past weekend and find out they didn't have a single Australian-made beer (used to buy Sheaf Stout to pair with steak).

**Schraubstock** · 11-01-2012, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by normhead

I bought my DA*60-250 quite a while ago and I know of no SDM issues with that lens.

Same here with mine. (but I hate to "schlepp" it around.)

Greetings

jtb04a · 11-01-2012, 08:22 PM

I assume this means that they need to get several new lenses out there at the same time being that all of the DA and DA* lenses will not work on a full frame camera. They still have several older lenses that they could reproduce, but if they are going to start selling full frame, they are going to have to make some new FF lenses to go with it.

Cannikin · 11-01-2012, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

You are correct, at less than F/2 on that lens, the APS-C wins at border performance.

Personally I wouldn't have even looked at that comparison to begin with because I would (basically) never use that setting. Perhaps a night landscape with nothing in the foreground?

Thanks, though.

I'll state this again, this was a comparison showing a 7.5 year old 8 mp APS-C vs a 21 mp FF. Even though the APS-C test is already severely handicapped with 1.62x less linear resolution, it still manages to show some higher absolute resolution figures.

Repeat the test with any modern 16/18/24 mp APS-C sensor, and the APS-C border will have higher absolute resolution at any aperture, not just <f/2.0.

11-01-2012, 09:11 PM	#375
Cannikin Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: SW Washington Posts: 833	Originally posted by ElJamoquio You are correct, at less than F/2 on that lens, the APS-C wins at border performance. Personally I wouldn't have even looked at that comparison to begin with because I would (basically) never use that setting. Perhaps a night landscape with nothing in the foreground? Thanks, though. I'll state this again, this was a comparison showing a 7.5 year old 8 mp APS-C vs a 21 mp FF. Even though the APS-C test is already severely handicapped with 1.62x less linear resolution, it still manages to show some higher absolute resolution figures. Repeat the test with any modern 16/18/24 mp APS-C sensor, and the APS-C border will have higher absolute resolution at any aperture, not just <f/2.0. Last edited by Cannikin; 11-01-2012 at 09:23 PM.

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11-01-2012, 11:06 AM - 1 Like	#361
zplus Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Posts: 166	My post from a longggggggggg time ago may be of use for comparing. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/61827-comparison-3...lots-pics.html

11-01-2012, 01:06 PM	#362
Cannikin Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: SW Washington Posts: 833	Originally posted by ElJamoquio Vignetting - yes. Crappy around the outside - I've yet to see a FF lens that has worse LP/PH values in FF than in APS-C, when comparing reasonable FF and APS-C cameras. Well search no further! Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 USM L (full format) - Review / Test Report - Analysis Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 USM L - Review / Test Report - Analysis And note this is a comparison between a 21mp FF and a puny 8mp APS-C, and the APS-C still wins at large apertures in the absolute (as opposed to relative/scaled) border lw/ph figures that you seem so concerned about. If this comparison were done with one of Canon's 18mp APS-C sensors, I have no doubt the APS-C border would crush the FF at any aperture.

11-01-2012, 01:15 PM	#363
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by Cannikin Well search no further! Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 USM L (full format) - Review / Test Report - Analysis Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 USM L - Review / Test Report - Analysis And note this is a comparison between a 21mp FF and a puny 8mp APS-C, and the APS-C still wins at large apertures in the absolute (as opposed to relative/scaled) border lw/ph figures that you seem so concerned about. If this comparison were done with one of Canon's 18mp APS-C sensors, I have no doubt the APS-C border would crush the FF at any aperture. You are correct, at less than F/2 on that lens, the APS-C wins at border performance. Personally I wouldn't have even looked at that comparison to begin with because I would (basically) never use that setting. Perhaps a night landscape with nothing in the foreground? Thanks, though.

11-01-2012, 02:21 PM	#364
Medium FormatPro Banned Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Charleston & Pittsburgh Photos: Albums Posts: 1,668	Originally posted by ElJamoquio at less than F/2 on that lens, the APS-C wins at border performance This is a swell example of what a lens is capable of; even when exceeding F 1.0 Leica 50mm f/0.95 Noctilux-M Aspherical Manual Focus Lens 11-602

11-01-2012, 02:22 PM	#365
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Cannikin Well search no further! Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 USM L (full format) - Review / Test Report - Analysis Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 USM L - Review / Test Report - Analysis And note this is a comparison between a 21mp FF and a puny 8mp APS-C, and the APS-C still wins at large apertures in the absolute (as opposed to relative/scaled) border lw/ph figures that you seem so concerned about. If this comparison were done with one of Canon's 18mp APS-C sensors, I have no doubt the APS-C border would crush the FF at any aperture. Originally posted by ElJamoquio You are correct, at less than F/2 on that lens, the APS-C wins at border performance. Personally I wouldn't have even looked at that comparison to begin with because I would (basically) never use that setting. Perhaps a night landscape with nothing in the foreground? Thanks, though. This test is actually one more reason not to go FF, but to stop at aps-H!

11-01-2012, 02:53 PM	#366
eryson New Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 3	Hopefully, FF will be released next year with body SR function

11-01-2012, 02:54 PM	#367
eryson New Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 3	And all the SDM lenses will be replaced with new DC

11-01-2012, 03:07 PM	#368
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by eryson And all the SDM lenses will be replaced with new DC You do know that SDM has officially been fixed don't you? Actually it's been for quite a while, I bought my DA*60-250 quite a while ago and I know of no SDM issues with that lens. Pentax has said the 16-50 has been redesigned.

11-01-2012, 03:15 PM	#369
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by Medium FormatPro This is a swell example of what a lens is capable of; even when exceeding F 1.0 Leica 50mm f/0.95 Noctilux-M Aspherical Manual Focus Lens 11-602 You're right, I have seen some awesome f/0.95 pics. I don't know that I would care about border performance in any of them, though. Sorry for forgetting to mention that caveat - I was trying to figure out a picture where I would care about border performance but would still want a very low aperture. Seems like a rather rare picture.

11-01-2012, 03:18 PM	#370
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Found one, maybe... http://overgaard.dk/thorstenovergaardcom_copyrighted_graphics/leica-noctilux..._GIFT_640w.jpg leica.overgaard.dk - Thorsten Overgaard's Leica Pages - Leica 50mm Noctilux-M ASPH f/0.95 - Leitz 50mm Noctilux-M f/1.2 and the Leica 50mm Noctilux-M f/1.0 samples and article

11-01-2012, 05:21 PM	#371
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by normhead You do know that SDM has officially been fixed don't you? Actually it's been for quite a while, I bought my DA*60-250 quite a while ago and I know of no SDM issues with that lens. Pentax has said the 16-50 has been redesigned. Can you link to an official statement from Pentax regarding the SDM issues?

11-01-2012, 06:14 PM	#372
eastman Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Chicagoland Photos: Gallery Posts: 83	Originally posted by markac Foster's has never really been all that popular here In Australia, at least since the Barry McKenzie days. Much better beers to be had like Cooper's for instance I always preferred XXXX over Foster's. Haven't had either one in years. Was disappointed to go to an Outback steakhouse this past weekend and find out they didn't have a single Australian-made beer (used to buy Sheaf Stout to pair with steak).

11-01-2012, 08:18 PM	#373
Schraubstock Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,386	Originally posted by normhead I bought my DA*60-250 quite a while ago and I know of no SDM issues with that lens. Same here with mine. (but I hate to "schlepp" it around.) Greetings

11-01-2012, 08:22 PM	#374
jtb04a Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 26	I assume this means that they need to get several new lenses out there at the same time being that all of the DA and DA* lenses will not work on a full frame camera. They still have several older lenses that they could reproduce, but if they are going to start selling full frame, they are going to have to make some new FF lenses to go with it.