full frame wishes

codger · 01-29-2013, 03:58 PM

Hello, everyone. It's likely Pentax will introduce a full-frame (24x36) DSLR sometime in 2013. I'll start this new thread with my wish. I'd like "it" to have two models. One would be a great STILL camera, possessing a state of the art sensor offering from 24 to 36 megapixels resolution, good live view, an articulating display, strong low-noise ISO to 6,400, efficient autofocus, a modest frame rate, limited and intuitive menus, and additions to the lens round-up featuring fine glass in focal lengths from 21, 35, 50, 85, 105, 135 to 150 over the next 18 months. Priced under $2,150. The OTHER MODEL would be essentially the same, but would include video. Priced under $2,950. Maybe call the first the KF-S (for still) and the other, the KF-SV (for video). What do you think?.

Adam · 01-29-2013, 04:05 PM

If they do make a camera for stills only, it should be retro-styled to look like the K1000. But I doubt this will ever happen, because it doesn't cost anything to add video support if a camera already supports live view and they have the firmware for it...plus, consumers love video.

**jatrax** · 01-29-2013, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by codger

first the KF-S (for still) and the other, the KF-SV (for video). What do you think?.

You are a bit late to this. It has already been decided the new mythical Pentax FF will be designated the LXd.

And it has already been debated and decided that no self respecting Pentax FF camera would have anything so silly as an articulated screen.

Saxplayer1004 · 01-29-2013, 05:53 PM

they said articulating screen is out if we want weather sealing. I'd like to see a comeback with a CCD sensor. The colors on my K10d really are better at low ISO than the K5...
Integrated gps and wifi a la the Canon 6d would be a nice feature too. GPS since they are marketing more towards the outdoors type people and wifi because it is far too convenient. Need to bring tethering back, preferably controllable from wifi and usb. It's a lot to ask, but nothing unreasonable

codger · 01-29-2013, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by jatrax

You are a bit late to this. It has already been decided the new mythical Pentax FF will be designated the LXd.

And it has already been debated and decided that no self respecting Pentax FF camera would have anything so silly as an articulated screen.

Okay, I'll give up the articulating screen for excellent weather sealing.

Medium FormatPro · 01-29-2013, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by codger

Hello, everyone. It's likely Pentax will introduce a full-frame (24x36) DSLR sometime in 2013. I'll start this new thread with my wish. I'd like "it" to have two models. One would be a great STILL camera, possessing a state of the art sensor offering from 24 to 36 megapixels resolution, good live view, an articulating display, strong low-noise ISO to 6,400, efficient autofocus, a modest frame rate, limited and intuitive menus, and additions to the lens round-up featuring fine glass in focal lengths from 21, 35, 50, 85, 105, 135 to 150 over the next 18 months. Priced under $2,150. The OTHER MODEL would be essentially the same, but would include video. Priced under $2,950. Maybe call the first the KF-S (for still) and the other, the KF-SV (for video). What do you think?.

Priced too high for the higher end model. More like 2200-2500 max. Anything more an it simply won't be worth *about* twice the cost of an existing K-5. Any Pentax full-frame would not likely go after the D4 flagship during initial release or even the Canon 5d, but would go after (and could even be better (besides lens options) the entry level Nikon full-frame.

As for the glass...

Pentax already has a good initiative in existing marketed full-frame lens. Could it be expanded upon? Sure, but it would be fine as is to get them started - even if the full0frame would be released today. Also remember that other *close to* marketed higher end cameras such as the Fuji series have extremely limited lens' availability, yet also do very well with that issue.

Then there's third party. Add in companies such as Sigma - then we have from 24mm to quite the moderate focal length range covered, and covered well - not just in focal length, but optical ability and also aperature.

codger · 01-29-2013, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by Medium FormatPro

Priced too high for the higher end model. More like 2200-2500 max. Anything more an it simply won't be worth *about* twice the cost of an existing K-5. Any Pentax full-frame would not likely go after the D4 flagship during initial release or even the Canon 5d, but would go after (and could even be better (besides lens options) the entry level Nikon full-frame.

As for the glass...

Pentax already has a good initiative in existing marketed full-frame lens. Could it be expanded upon? Sure, but it would be fine as is to get them started - even if the full0frame would be released today. Also remember that other *close to* marketed higher end cameras such as the Fuji series have extremely limited lens' availability, yet also do very well with that issue.

Then there's third party. Add in companies such as Sigma - then we have from 24mm to quite the moderate focal length range covered, and covered well - not just in focal length, but optical ability and also aperature.

Some good points, MFP. I've done 67 and 67ii for going on 14 years and I know I'll be "adapting" some kind of full frame system. I would expect Zeiss would have some lenses I'd like, but I might have to mix in a couple of Sigma's better pieces at their more favorable price levels. I wouldn't expect Pentax to try and out-do Nikon's D4 (or successor), but thought it would make sense to land somewhere between the D600 and D800 twins. I figured Pentax would do that and come in 10-15% lower in retail price.

**Rondec** · 01-29-2013, 06:54 PM

I still don't understand why people think that if you leave video off of an SLR that the camera can then be sold cheaper. At this point all of the sensors out there are video capable, it is just a question of software (which Pentax already has). I understand that a lot of people don't use video much on their cameras, I don't either, but leaving it off wouldn't save any money, it would just make the camera less competitive in the marketplace.

**TomB_tx** · 01-29-2013, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

I still don't understand why people think that if you leave video off of an SLR that the camera can then be sold cheaper. At this point all of the sensors out there are video capable, it is just a question of software (which Pentax already has). I understand that a lot of people don't use video much on their cameras, I don't either, but leaving it off wouldn't save any money, it would just make the camera less competitive in the marketplace.

Right - removing features and lowering the price is missing the opportunity for creative pricing. Instead do like Leica did: They basically took the M9 camera, made it monochrome (B&W) only, and RAISED the price $1,000. Still selling more than they expected.

Sol Invictus · 01-29-2013, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

I still don't understand why people think that if you leave video off of an SLR that the camera can then be sold cheaper. At this point all of the sensors out there are video capable, it is just a question of software (which Pentax already has). I understand that a lot of people don't use video much on their cameras, I don't either, but leaving it off wouldn't save any money, it would just make the camera less competitive in the marketplace.

Thirty years ago they would be saying the same thing about autofocus. There is a contingent of Pentaxians happy to live in the past.

Sol Invictus · 01-29-2013, 07:52 PM

Take a D600 with a K5 build and SR and price it at 2300ish. Done.

You will have the K5 vs. D7000 battle again, this time in full-frame.

Saxplayer1004 · 01-30-2013, 06:29 AM

I'd still like to see integrated GPS and wifi. It's a huge selling point when you're marketing WR on your cameras and high end lenses. They're meant to be used outdoors, so having the GPS built in would free up the hotshoe for flashes which means we'd lose the built in flash, but if they come out with a flash like the SB-400 then we won't really need one. Wifi built in doesn't take hardly any space and minimal R&D work but would be a great feature with almost everyone having a smartphone now.

normhead · 01-30-2013, 07:11 AM

All I can say about FF is, if it's like everything else, the day I give up on it and buy a couple of grand in APS-c lenses, they'll bring one out the next day. You guys should just send me the money for those lenses and get it over with. As it is, I'm saving my pennies. That day will come.

Apart from that, built in GPS would sell me any Pentax dslr. I am so tired of coming back from a two week trip , trying to remember exactly where each picture was taken. Sure I get it done, but not always accurately. As for wifi, unless you can couple it to an iPad for focus peeking, I don't care.

**Rondec** · 01-30-2013, 07:32 AM

Originally posted by Sol Invictus

Thirty years ago they would be saying the same thing about autofocus. There is a contingent of Pentaxians happy to live in the past.

At least if you leave auto focus out, your are leaving hardware out that would really knock some cost off of the camera. Leaving video off is more like leaving off a special "scene mode" or HDR feature. Something that doesn't cost anything, may not add value to most users, but looks good on a feature list.

codger · 01-30-2013, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by DavidOBryan

I wish for the smallest full frame DSLR in production. All the rest of them are just too big and heavy.

After 14 years toting a 67ii body (or two), four or five 67 lenses, a 6' Gitzo tripod and Bogen 3047 head in the Rockies, most of the current FF digitals seem nearly petite by comparison. I certainly want a better hand grip than a D600, and more space for (larger) buttons that don't require a stylus to operate. I suspect Pentax will bring out an efficient but SUFficient design.

01-29-2013, 03:58 PM	#1
codger New Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 18	full frame wishes Hello, everyone. It's likely Pentax will introduce a full-frame (24x36) DSLR sometime in 2013. I'll start this new thread with my wish. I'd like "it" to have two models. One would be a great STILL camera, possessing a state of the art sensor offering from 24 to 36 megapixels resolution, good live view, an articulating display, strong low-noise ISO to 6,400, efficient autofocus, a modest frame rate, limited and intuitive menus, and additions to the lens round-up featuring fine glass in focal lengths from 21, 35, 50, 85, 105, 135 to 150 over the next 18 months. Priced under $2,150. The OTHER MODEL would be essentially the same, but would include video. Priced under $2,950. Maybe call the first the KF-S (for still) and the other, the KF-SV (for video). What do you think?.

01-29-2013, 04:05 PM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,593	If they do make a camera for stills only, it should be retro-styled to look like the K1000. But I doubt this will ever happen, because it doesn't cost anything to add video support if a camera already supports live view and they have the firmware for it...plus, consumers love video. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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01-29-2013, 04:55 PM	#3
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by codger first the KF-S (for still) and the other, the KF-SV (for video). What do you think?. You are a bit late to this. It has already been decided the new mythical Pentax FF will be designated the LXd. And it has already been debated and decided that no self respecting Pentax FF camera would have anything so silly as an articulated screen.

01-29-2013, 05:53 PM	#4
Saxplayer1004 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 179	they said articulating screen is out if we want weather sealing. I'd like to see a comeback with a CCD sensor. The colors on my K10d really are better at low ISO than the K5... Integrated gps and wifi a la the Canon 6d would be a nice feature too. GPS since they are marketing more towards the outdoors type people and wifi because it is far too convenient. Need to bring tethering back, preferably controllable from wifi and usb. It's a lot to ask, but nothing unreasonable

01-29-2013, 06:37 PM	#5
codger New Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 18 Original Poster	Originally posted by jatrax You are a bit late to this. It has already been decided the new mythical Pentax FF will be designated the LXd. And it has already been debated and decided that no self respecting Pentax FF camera would have anything so silly as an articulated screen. Okay, I'll give up the articulating screen for excellent weather sealing.

01-29-2013, 06:37 PM	#6
Medium FormatPro Banned Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Charleston & Pittsburgh Photos: Albums Posts: 1,668	Originally posted by codger Hello, everyone. It's likely Pentax will introduce a full-frame (24x36) DSLR sometime in 2013. I'll start this new thread with my wish. I'd like "it" to have two models. One would be a great STILL camera, possessing a state of the art sensor offering from 24 to 36 megapixels resolution, good live view, an articulating display, strong low-noise ISO to 6,400, efficient autofocus, a modest frame rate, limited and intuitive menus, and additions to the lens round-up featuring fine glass in focal lengths from 21, 35, 50, 85, 105, 135 to 150 over the next 18 months. Priced under $2,150. The OTHER MODEL would be essentially the same, but would include video. Priced under $2,950. Maybe call the first the KF-S (for still) and the other, the KF-SV (for video). What do you think?. Priced too high for the higher end model. More like 2200-2500 max. Anything more an it simply won't be worth about twice the cost of an existing K-5. Any Pentax full-frame would not likely go after the D4 flagship during initial release or even the Canon 5d, but would go after (and could even be better (besides lens options) the entry level Nikon full-frame. As for the glass... Pentax already has a good initiative in existing marketed full-frame lens. Could it be expanded upon? Sure, but it would be fine as is to get them started - even if the full0frame would be released today. Also remember that other close to marketed higher end cameras such as the Fuji series have extremely limited lens' availability, yet also do very well with that issue. Then there's third party. Add in companies such as Sigma - then we have from 24mm to quite the moderate focal length range covered, and covered well - not just in focal length, but optical ability and also aperature.

01-29-2013, 06:53 PM	#7
codger New Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 18 Original Poster	Originally posted by Medium FormatPro Priced too high for the higher end model. More like 2200-2500 max. Anything more an it simply won't be worth about twice the cost of an existing K-5. Any Pentax full-frame would not likely go after the D4 flagship during initial release or even the Canon 5d, but would go after (and could even be better (besides lens options) the entry level Nikon full-frame. As for the glass... Pentax already has a good initiative in existing marketed full-frame lens. Could it be expanded upon? Sure, but it would be fine as is to get them started - even if the full0frame would be released today. Also remember that other close to marketed higher end cameras such as the Fuji series have extremely limited lens' availability, yet also do very well with that issue. Then there's third party. Add in companies such as Sigma - then we have from 24mm to quite the moderate focal length range covered, and covered well - not just in focal length, but optical ability and also aperature. Some good points, MFP. I've done 67 and 67ii for going on 14 years and I know I'll be "adapting" some kind of full frame system. I would expect Zeiss would have some lenses I'd like, but I might have to mix in a couple of Sigma's better pieces at their more favorable price levels. I wouldn't expect Pentax to try and out-do Nikon's D4 (or successor), but thought it would make sense to land somewhere between the D600 and D800 twins. I figured Pentax would do that and come in 10-15% lower in retail price.

01-29-2013, 06:54 PM	#8
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	I still don't understand why people think that if you leave video off of an SLR that the camera can then be sold cheaper. At this point all of the sensors out there are video capable, it is just a question of software (which Pentax already has). I understand that a lot of people don't use video much on their cameras, I don't either, but leaving it off wouldn't save any money, it would just make the camera less competitive in the marketplace.

01-29-2013, 07:03 PM	#9
TomB_tx Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,446	Originally posted by Rondec I still don't understand why people think that if you leave video off of an SLR that the camera can then be sold cheaper. At this point all of the sensors out there are video capable, it is just a question of software (which Pentax already has). I understand that a lot of people don't use video much on their cameras, I don't either, but leaving it off wouldn't save any money, it would just make the camera less competitive in the marketplace. Right - removing features and lowering the price is missing the opportunity for creative pricing. Instead do like Leica did: They basically took the M9 camera, made it monochrome (B&W) only, and RAISED the price $1,000. Still selling more than they expected.

01-29-2013, 07:47 PM	#10
Sol Invictus Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Calgary, Alberta Photos: Gallery Posts: 392	Originally posted by Rondec I still don't understand why people think that if you leave video off of an SLR that the camera can then be sold cheaper. At this point all of the sensors out there are video capable, it is just a question of software (which Pentax already has). I understand that a lot of people don't use video much on their cameras, I don't either, but leaving it off wouldn't save any money, it would just make the camera less competitive in the marketplace. Thirty years ago they would be saying the same thing about autofocus. There is a contingent of Pentaxians happy to live in the past.

01-29-2013, 07:52 PM	#11
Sol Invictus Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Calgary, Alberta Photos: Gallery Posts: 392	Take a D600 with a K5 build and SR and price it at 2300ish. Done. You will have the K5 vs. D7000 battle again, this time in full-frame.

01-30-2013, 06:29 AM	#12
Saxplayer1004 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 179	I'd still like to see integrated GPS and wifi. It's a huge selling point when you're marketing WR on your cameras and high end lenses. They're meant to be used outdoors, so having the GPS built in would free up the hotshoe for flashes which means we'd lose the built in flash, but if they come out with a flash like the SB-400 then we won't really need one. Wifi built in doesn't take hardly any space and minimal R&D work but would be a great feature with almost everyone having a smartphone now.

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01-30-2013, 07:11 AM	#13
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,450	All I can say about FF is, if it's like everything else, the day I give up on it and buy a couple of grand in APS-c lenses, they'll bring one out the next day. You guys should just send me the money for those lenses and get it over with. As it is, I'm saving my pennies. That day will come. Apart from that, built in GPS would sell me any Pentax dslr. I am so tired of coming back from a two week trip , trying to remember exactly where each picture was taken. Sure I get it done, but not always accurately. As for wifi, unless you can couple it to an iPad for focus peeking, I don't care.

01-30-2013, 07:32 AM	#14
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by Sol Invictus Thirty years ago they would be saying the same thing about autofocus. There is a contingent of Pentaxians happy to live in the past. At least if you leave auto focus out, your are leaving hardware out that would really knock some cost off of the camera. Leaving video off is more like leaving off a special "scene mode" or HDR feature. Something that doesn't cost anything, may not add value to most users, but looks good on a feature list.

01-30-2013, 10:29 AM	#15
codger New Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 18 Original Poster	Originally posted by DavidOBryan I wish for the smallest full frame DSLR in production. All the rest of them are just too big and heavy. After 14 years toting a 67ii body (or two), four or five 67 lenses, a 6' Gitzo tripod and Bogen 3047 head in the Rockies, most of the current FF digitals seem nearly petite by comparison. I certainly want a better hand grip than a D600, and more space for (larger) buttons that don't require a stylus to operate. I suspect Pentax will bring out an efficient but SUFficient design.