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02-04-2013, 09:40 AM   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It is important, but not that important, IMO
It is a MARGINAL thing. Average doesn't matter - the last unit shipped is almost 100% bottom line!!

20% of global shipments is the marginal difference between profit and abysmal failure - especially if you have no market presence. Pentax can't compete at all in high-margin, high-service, high-touch product (FF dSLR) until they solve PRIAC.

02-04-2013, 09:45 AM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
20% of global shipments is the marginal difference between profit and abysmal failure - especially if you have no market presence. Pentax can't compete at all in high-margin, high-service, high-touch product (FF dSLR) until they solve PRIAC.
Not so sure about that - margins are lower in the US because of the weakening of the $, so it may make sense to regain market share in more lucrative markets first.
02-04-2013, 09:51 AM   #168
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QuoteQuote:
solve PRIAC
whatever a priac is or isn't.
02-04-2013, 09:52 AM - 2 Likes   #169
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I don't know whether to be more amazed over;
a) Pentax having the balls to keep trotting out the '...we're really, seriously, totally, maybe, thinking about FF, at some point. Like, almost completely...' line, every damn year, with a straight face.
b) Pentaxians, playing Charlie Brown and getting lathered up, every damn year, just to get the football snatched away.

If Pentax had product(s), they'd be showing a test mule, at minimum. The first Fuji X camera they showed was made of balsa wood and chewing gum, but at least it was something tangible. When Pentax shows something that has more substance than a happy thought, then I'll consider it to be more than vaporware.

02-04-2013, 09:56 AM   #170
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Pentax Ricoh Imaging Americas Company, aka Pentax USA.
While I agree the issues there must be solved, I don't think it's impossible to make a FF camera without solving everything first. IMO it would be more damaging to postpone development&growth plans until fixing PRIAC. It's not like Pentax would go from 0 to the "normal" 20%

junyo, "every damn year"? Are you confusing made-up rumors and bad 1st April jokes with official Pentax declarations/interviews?
02-04-2013, 10:09 AM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Not so sure about that - margins are lower in the US because of the weakening of the $, so it may make sense to regain market share in more lucrative markets first.
Huh???
02-04-2013, 10:17 AM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
junyo, "every damn year"? Are you confusing made-up rumors and bad 1st April jokes with official Pentax declarations/interviews?
Is there a difference?
02-04-2013, 10:19 AM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Here is the essential conundrum for Pentax (doesn't matter who owns Pentax).

The USA market, whether or not largest on earth any more, is at least the marginal market for high-margin products. Everything depends upon whether the USA is a relevant market for Pentax now and in the future. Without an effective marketing and distribution channel in the USA Pentax has a very tough challenge achieving volume at high-margin prices. We've seen that Pentax doesn't desire volume at low-margin prices. Canon and Nikon dominate the store trade - box and boutique.

Pentax can have all the products we want, complete, ready to manufacture - but until PRIAC gets its act together and PRI comnmits long-term, repetitive investment into market development PRIAC is going nowhere. Without PRIAC high-margin products aren't likely to achieve launch volume globally.

Without PRIAC there won't be - there can't be - any Pentax FF camera (and lenses, and attachments, and accessories).

Until just 6 months ago Ricoh's business plan was essentially, lay off employees of IKON Office Systems (restructure) globally to recover fromt the disastrous 2008 acquisition of that company. Pentax cost $100MM +/-, not a small sum in the middle of a losing period, but not a backbreaker, either. However, the add-on investments necessary to rebuild Pentax (not the product stuff, which they have - the distribution channel), especially in PRIAC, was a deal-breaker. When you are retrenching in one division expanding in another just isn't going to happen - the Finance Guys won't allow it, and money always has the deciding seat at the table. Always.

Pentax is telling us they have the desire, they have a plan, they have the technology, they have the prototypes, they have the business relationships with third-party suppliers --- they have the Product!!

But they don't have permission of the Finance Guys yet. And they won't get that until PRIAC is fixed. Good luck on that, Mr. Malcolm.

Ogl - you don't know your business as well as you seem to believe. Its all about money. Always has been, always is and ever shall it always be.
Very strong points but I wonder. What you say also means that Ricoh's acquisition plan was BS since they failed to allow for sufficient rebuilding costs. And now, if the finance people continue to say no, Ricoh may allow an acquisition whose previous owners has already stripped it simply to fade away - get into a situation so far behind the market that it may never recover. In which case that original 100M investment might as well have been thrown into the sea. Although in the end it is about profit and loss, as you rightly say, pegging everything to the US market sounds too negative to me because of what it says about Ricoh's diligence and planning. If Ricoh can find some growth in new markets - China? India? Europe? - the problems particular to the US may not be so important, not that they aren't pressing ones.

02-04-2013, 10:30 AM   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
junyo, "every damn year"? Are you confusing made-up rumors and bad 1st April jokes with official Pentax declarations/interviews?
What's the model name(s)? What are the specs? What's the release date? How about pricing?

How is this more than a rumor?
02-04-2013, 10:32 AM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
I believe in Leica, and nothing else.
Ned, is that you?
02-04-2013, 10:36 AM   #176
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote

junyo, "every damn year"? Are you confusing made-up rumors and bad 1st April jokes with official Pentax declarations/interviews?
yeah....from 2001 year...
02-04-2013, 10:43 AM   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
yeah....from 2001 year...
The thing is that the Pentax FF will be hardly profitable since it has to cover 10 years of FF R&D, prototypes and FF technologies investigations.
02-04-2013, 10:45 AM   #178
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I wonder how profitable the 645D is?
02-04-2013, 10:48 AM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Here is the essential conundrum for Pentax (doesn't matter who owns Pentax).

The USA market, whether or not largest on earth any more, is at least the marginal market for high-margin products. Everything depends upon whether the USA is a relevant market for Pentax now and in the future. Without an effective marketing and distribution channel in the USA Pentax has a very tough challenge achieving volume at high-margin prices. We've seen that Pentax doesn't desire volume at low-margin prices. Canon and Nikon dominate the store trade - box and boutique.

Pentax can have all the products we want, complete, ready to manufacture - but until PRIAC gets its act together and PRI comnmits long-term, repetitive investment into market development PRIAC is going nowhere. Without PRIAC high-margin products aren't likely to achieve launch volume globally.

Without PRIAC there won't be - there can't be - any Pentax FF camera (and lenses, and attachments, and accessories).

Until just 6 months ago Ricoh's business plan was essentially, lay off employees of IKON Office Systems (restructure) globally to recover fromt the disastrous 2008 acquisition of that company. Pentax cost $100MM +/-, not a small sum in the middle of a losing period, but not a backbreaker, either. However, the add-on investments necessary to rebuild Pentax (not the product stuff, which they have - the distribution channel), especially in PRIAC, was a deal-breaker. When you are retrenching in one division expanding in another just isn't going to happen - the Finance Guys won't allow it, and money always has the deciding seat at the table. Always.

Pentax is telling us they have the desire, they have a plan, they have the technology, they have the prototypes, they have the business relationships with third-party suppliers --- they have the Product!!

But they don't have permission of the Finance Guys yet. And they won't get that until PRIAC is fixed. Good luck on that, Mr. Malcolm.

Ogl - you don't know your business as well as you seem to believe. Its all about money. Always has been, always is and ever shall it always be.
I'm giving you a +1 on this post because it was very well reasoned. I admit that I know pretty little about business...I am an engineer so I deal better with widgets in hand that future speculation of what may or may not happen.

I have no doubt that Ricoh has a plan...but I think whatever their plan is, it is coming off as very confusing to the Pentax consumers. I think the MAP pricing increases, as well as the initial release prices of the K-01 and the Q left a lot of us very cynical.

The price increase of the DA* lenses puts them out of reach for folks that came into Pentax thinking it was a value brand.
02-04-2013, 10:50 AM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by NickLarsson Quote
The thing is that the Pentax FF will be hardly profitable since it has to cover 10 years of FF R&D, prototypes and FF technologies investigations.
The only real R&D would be building a new SR module - a sensor is a sensor, and Pentax knows how to pull the most out of a good sensor already. They also already have good practical design and interfaces, none of which would need to be particularly overhauled. As has been said I do think it comes down to the bottom line, money.
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