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02-04-2013, 06:13 PM   #211
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote

It makes me wonder, what glass does everyone have that you think would perform well on an FF camera?

Sigma 8mm Circular Fisheye, Sigma 12-24mm, Pentax 17-28 Fisheye Zoom, Pentax 20-35mm zoom , Pentax DFA 50/2.8 Macro, Pentax DFA 100/2.8 Macro, Pentax FA*85/1.4, Pentax FA* 200/2.8, Sigma APO 300/2.8.................

02-04-2013, 08:11 PM   #212
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Of course industry leader Canon is going to take their advantage against smaller players to prevent them from stepping up... this will pit the K-5 II/IIs successor against full-frame Canikon semi-pro models. Pentax's "different" strategy is not really effective these days...

sure they put down FFs with the 645D - but only for a time. Keeping up is hard. So it's no puzzle to me that Pentax is still mum about releasing any info on their FF project. They already have a lot of mounts in the line - Q, K, and 645, with interchangeability trickling down (though there's no modern 645-to-K adapter).
02-04-2013, 08:19 PM   #213
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
They haven't done that, either. People fuelled rumours, not Pentax.
August last year:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/197958-watch-out-full-...a-twitter.html
Result: two new cropped bodies.

Yeah, I know. It wasn't Mr Pentax himself, yadayadyada, weaselwoord, not Pentax. And you conveniently excised the part where i pointed out that Pentax could have squashed these 'people' rumors whenever they felt like it. Whatever dude. My prediction stands. As of December 31, Eastern US time, 2013, there will be no Pentax digital FF body.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Why would I bet over something I never claimed?
You said this time it was an official announcement:
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Are you confusing made-up rumors and bad 1st April jokes with official Pentax declarations/interviews?
- Emphasis mine.If it's official, there should be proof that some product exists. Completely willing, hoping actually, to be proven wrong. 1000% confident I won't be. Funny how we can't even make a no cost bet that they'll provide anything in the next year. Such stunning confidence an this 'completely not a rumor, never been down this road before, totally official statement'.
02-04-2013, 08:50 PM   #214
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QuoteOriginally posted by cmohr Quote
Sigma 8mm Circular Fisheye, Sigma 12-24mm, Pentax 17-28 Fisheye Zoom, Pentax 20-35mm zoom , Pentax DFA 50/2.8 Macro, Pentax DFA 100/2.8 Macro, Pentax FA*85/1.4, Pentax FA* 200/2.8, Sigma APO 300/2.8.................
I think what normhead means is where is the modern pro-level glass able to exploit the FF sensor to it's full potential. The lenses you named are all fine and good but they're not the drool worthy equivalents of offering from Canikon and unless Pentax has a few more than the aging FA 31mm, 43mm and 77mm at launch, it's going to be a hard sell.

02-04-2013, 09:04 PM - 1 Like   #215
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Pentax is where Apple was in the mid-1990s. Several changes in leadership, capable but rarely truly exceptional or innovative products, pathetic marketing and PR, and losing their user base at an alarming rate. Their full frame offering needs to compensate for their Newton, er, Q (among other missteps) in as dramatic a way as the original iMac did. A "me too" full frame camera isn't going to cut it. A "me too, but travel size!" full frame camera isn't going to be enough, either. Slow sync speed, no tethering, and poor distribution? And heaven help them if it can't focus in incandescent light.

Blow away the competition. Do what Pentax always does well (size, weather sealing, image quality, price point, etc) and then be as far ahead of the competition in at least one category as the D800 was in resolution. They have to do at least one thing AMAZINGLY well to get the market attention they need. For the original iMac it had the tremendously novel appearance. Other than reliably compact, that's not a good idea here. The iMac was also easier to set up and use than any other computer previously made. (The iMac name comes from Internet Mac, a reference to the fact that you could unbox it and be online in under 10 minutes.)

I suggest Pentax lead the market in an affordable high speed and/or high resolution video mode. 120fps at 1080p MINIMUM. No less than 2K at 60fps, with native 24, 25 and 30 fps modes and professional audio connectors and uncompressed output. Do 4K at at least 24 fps and under $3,000 and REALLY get people's attention.

If they do this right they could actually become again the innovative company they once were, with the kind of cash flow they've only dreamed of.

Do another "me too" camera when they finally get around to going full frame and much of the remaining user base will disappear. Then it's just a matter of time until they're gone. They can only milk the loyal user base for so many generations when they have very real expenses even to tag along years behind other manufacturers.
02-04-2013, 10:23 PM   #216
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
4) Pentax already has that camera, between APS-C and 60x45. It's the 44x33 645D.


Now a miniaturized-645D mount (with shortened-register-distance, but otherwise completely compatible with tube-adapter) 645 mount would be quite awesome. Some have speculated on a mirrorless 645 but I'm a fan of the OVF for a few more years.
Nonsense. 645 system lenses are in another category. Price, DOF, dimensions, weight, optical quality and it's another world of photography.
645 system couldn't change 24*36 mm.

By the way, the film size is 56*41.5 mm. Not 60*45.
In digital era ANY camera with sensor bigger than 24*36 mm is middle format.
The size of 645 film (crop-factor) is used just to calculate focal range in 35 mm or 645 film equivalent.
No any fixed dependence with size of sensor now.
Digital 645 is already better than 67 film with final results.
02-04-2013, 10:32 PM   #217
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
They haven't done that, either. People fuelled rumours, not Pentax.
They done it. All rumors about any products are from inside of Pentax. 95%.

All rumors I've got were from Pentax's representatives. 100%.
You can't trust in it.. But I never had any other sources.

Last edited by ogl; 02-05-2013 at 02:15 AM.
02-04-2013, 10:39 PM   #218
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Nonsense. 645 system lenses are in another category. Price, DOF, dimensions, weight, optical quality and it's another world of photography.
I guess that settles it!

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
the film size is 56*41.5 mm.
You are correct! But this isn't a trivia contest, unfortunately, and I wasn't talking about the 645 film cameras.

02-04-2013, 11:31 PM   #219
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What I would like for FF body is to have something like a hasselblad type of body with K mount, a detachable viewfinder on top of the camera, LCD on the backside, and buttons on the right side.
02-04-2013, 11:52 PM   #220
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sol Invictus Quote
I think what normhead means is where is the modern pro-level glass able to exploit the FF sensor to it's full potential. The lenses you named are all fine and good but they're not the drool worthy equivalents of offering from Canikon and unless Pentax has a few more than the aging FA 31mm, 43mm and 77mm at launch, it's going to be a hard sell.
Hmmmm . You Don't have to have "PRO LEVEL" glass on a FF, just because its a FF. I haven't seen all of those who have jumped ship, going out and buying only the Pro-level 1500 - 2000+ versions of lenses for their FF nikons and the like, just the basic FF lenses in most cases, So if Pentax does in fact release this FF, ever, The very Fine FA limited you can buy today are more than enough to satisfy anybody and not at such huge prices, and there is a heap of legacy and 3rd party glass out there as well that a FF would happily render very fine images from. FF no longer means PRO, its just a format now, and I think worrying about Lenses at this stage (ie - before the camera even exists) is putting the horse before the cart a little bit. If they build a camera tommorow, you could go out and buy very fine lenses, right now, that anybody would be pleased with. And remember, one of the big things most people quote about Pentax Cameras is the ability to use Legacy Glass.

And Yes, My answer was a little simplistic maybe, I just answered what FF glass "I" would be attaching to a Pentax FF in simple answer to Norms Question, that I believe would work well, no malice was intended, just an answer, all but three of the lenses I mentioned (the DFA Macros and the 300/2.8) are lenses I had well before I had Digital (my *istD bought 2 weeks after its release).

I have little doubt in my mind that IF and when Pentax every releases a FF dslr body, 3rd party lenses manufactures will release many more lenses that they currently offer to Canikon users for the K-mount than they currently do, and Pentax itself will revamp and rejuvenate its FA line. Lets just the camera first. I don't think there will be any problems "selling" them.
02-05-2013, 12:40 AM   #221
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QuoteOriginally posted by junyo Quote
August last year:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/197958-watch-out-full-...a-twitter.html
Result: two new cropped bodies.

Yeah, I know. It wasn't Mr Pentax himself, yadayadyada, weaselwoord, not Pentax. And you conveniently excised the part where i pointed out that Pentax could have squashed these 'people' rumors whenever they felt like it. Whatever dude. My prediction stands. As of December 31, Eastern US time, 2013, there will be no Pentax digital FF body.


You said this time it was an official announcement:
- Emphasis mine.If it's official, there should be proof that some product exists. Completely willing, hoping actually, to be proven wrong. 1000% confident I won't be. Funny how we can't even make a no cost bet that they'll provide anything in the next year. Such stunning confidence an this 'completely not a rumor, never been down this road before, totally official statement'.
Indeed, that was some PentaxAustralia Twitter or whatever, vague enough so it could be mistaken for a FF promise. I'll give you that. However, many observed that a FF was not actually promised, and e.g. a high-end APS-C was much more likely.
Even more, that's for 2012 which is already covered by the "we're working on FF technologies" Kitazawa-san interviews. How about the other years? Is that all you have?

My prediction: good things are coming, this year.

Read again what I wrote: made-up rumours and bad 1st April jokes are not the same as official Pentax declarations. I never ever said there are Hoya-era official Pentax declarations announcing a FF camera.

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
They done it. All rumors about any products are from inside of Pentax. 95%.

All rumors I've got was from Pentax's representatives. 100%.
You can't trust in it...But I never had any other sources.
Are you sure about that?
If a Pentax insider told you they're planning to launch a FF camera, he lied to you. But I doubt that happened.
02-05-2013, 01:11 AM   #222
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
My Studio instructor once said , "find the lens you like and buy the body that goes with it."
Very good advice... if money is of no issue. All manufacturers have really good lenses in their lineup. That's how I ended up with 4 bodies from 4 different brands.
02-05-2013, 02:16 AM   #223
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote

Are you sure about that?
If a Pentax insider told you they're planning to launch a FF camera, he lied to you. But I doubt that happened.
FF - Yes...On 2010, 2011. Several times.
02-05-2013, 02:24 AM   #224
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
What I would like for FF body is to have something like a Hasselblad type of body with K mount, a detachable viewfinder on top of the camera, LCD on the backside, and buttons on the right side.
Kind of digital Rolleiflex SL 2000 F / SL 3003 with K mount? With interchangeable lenses, film backs and magazines (==> sensor and electronics), focusing screens, and with built-in waist-level (==> top LCD) and eye-level finders? Could be nice indeed.

Rollei 3003



Last edited by Mistral75; 02-05-2013 at 02:35 AM.
02-05-2013, 02:25 AM   #225
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Very good advice... if money is of no issue. All manufacturers have really good lenses in their lineup. That's how I ended up with 4 bodies from 4 different brands.
I think money can get got around to a degree. I fell in love with the DA Limited primes as a set. I bought all but one second-hand over 2-3 years and in total they cost less together than buying one new super-high-massive quality prime from Canonikon, let alone from Leica or a Zeiss 21mm, for example.

Of course, the DA Limited have their compromises not least because of their size constraints. But the point is that I fell for them. Whoever thought them up and ensured that each was differently configured like a piece of netsuke was being extremely clever. Since a body was also designed specifically for them (according to a Pentax paper on the subject) - it was originally the K7, now the K5 - someone in Pentax was joining up the dots. They didn't push through on the marketing, however, selling the whole collection as a unified set (as an idea or aspiration even if not to buy all at once) - this was a bit of a mistake, imho, since the ensemble was and to an extent still is unique.

Anyway, my point is that if you make things people fall in love with they will buy them. And chances are, no one else will be producing anything all that similar. Most cameras and lenses are about as interesting as washing machines or coffee grinders. They are highly competently done to a fine standard of industrial design and they do what they say they will. But they are cold and workaday and nothing one can get excited about. The Nikon D600 and Nikon 28mm 1.8, 50mm 1.4 and 85mm f1.8 G lenses (the standard "economy" set of primes for FF) are perfect examples of that school of thought. The Pentax Limiteds or the Fuji X series are good examples of the different approach.

So Pentax have done it once and I hope they can do it again, reminding us that we take lots of pics because we fell in love with photography. If they only do "me too", however, whether in FF or any other new format, which is always the easy option in a corporate setting where "cheap to make, quick to sell" is what the money men want to hear, I think they are sunk.
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