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02-05-2013, 09:59 AM   #271
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
Not sure if sarcastic ...
Not sarcastic at all. I find learning each new lens in the lineup takes months if not years. Being able to have that one (go to) lens, and using the others only when there are technical reasons you can't use it, is a huge advantage. I'm still trying out my lenses. I'm still acquiring lenses, so for me, there's no end in sight.

02-05-2013, 10:08 AM   #272
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Not sarcastic at all. I find learning each new lens in the lineup takes months if not years. Being able to have that one (go to) lens, and using the others only when there are technical reasons you can't use it, is a huge advantage. I'm still trying out my lenses. I'm still acquiring lenses, so for me, there's no end in sight.
I feel your pain!
I don't think you ever get to see the end of it ... is just those rare moments when you are more comfortable with one lens, more than others ...
02-05-2013, 11:03 AM   #273
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Where did you get those numbers?
16 MP APS-C


24 MP APS-C


24 MP FF
02-05-2013, 11:16 AM   #274
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I guess you missed the part where it states you can't compare different systems using these tests. I love photozone but because they have not tested even one third party lens on both Pentax and Nikon, there is no way to determine what those ratings might mean in relation to each other. I pretty much ignore them in comparisons across different brands.

02-05-2013, 11:25 AM   #275
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I love photozone but because they have not tested even one third party lens on both Pentax and Nikon, there is no way to determine what those ratings might mean in relation to each other. I pretty much ignore them in comparisons across different brands.
well..... 2 actually

Tamron 90 and Sigma 17-70 on D200 and K10D, but all that is irrelevant in this thread... sorry...
02-05-2013, 11:34 AM   #276
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I guess you missed the part where it states you can't compare different systems using these tests. I love photozone but because they have not tested even one third party lens on both Pentax and Nikon, there is no way to determine what those ratings might mean in relation to each other. I pretty much ignore them in comparisons across different brands.
Dear friend...
I don't compare LENSES at different systems. I use ONLY LW/PH data.
I say about maximum resolution of APS-C or FF cameras.

Pay attention at the data at the left side of tables.

2750, 3400 and 4000 LW/PH. It's theoretical maximum of concrete camera calculated by IMATEST.

You can find 24 MP APS-C camera which could has resolution close to 24 MP FF camera, but...
Not equal. Always LOWER.

To compare resolution of K-5 and D800 is nonsense. D800 has huge resolution.
K-5IIs, I guess, has not higher than 3000 LW/PH. D7000 with weak AA filter than K-5 has 2900 LW/PH.

Last edited by ogl; 02-05-2013 at 11:41 AM.
02-05-2013, 11:36 AM   #277
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QuoteOriginally posted by the swede Quote
well..... 2 actually

Tamron 90 and Sigma 17-70 on D200 and K10D, but all that is irrelevant in this thread... sorry...
If you're comparing a K10D and a D200 it counts, if you're comparing a K10D and a K-5 it doesn't...
I'm interested in why you seem to be ignoring the Imaging Resource photos where they are posting the actual test images, for the photozone images, where they don't.

When different sources report wildly different results something is going on. And my suspicion is that photo zone have changed their test procedures and their new tests are for some reason producing higher numbers than their old tests. But I have no idea what's going on over there. What I've seen one imaging resources is an effort to make cross camera comparisons possible. Photozone doesn't appear to even want to do that. So excuse me if I tend to do what they advise, and not use the comparisons across different systems, and that includes different models within the same camera maker, not just different makers.
02-05-2013, 11:53 AM   #278
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QuoteOriginally posted by the swede Quote
well..... 2 actually

Tamron 90 and Sigma 17-70 on D200 and K10D, but all that is irrelevant in this thread... sorry...
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Dear friend...
I don't compare LENSES at different systems. I use ONLY LW/PH data.
I say about maximum resolution of APS-C or FF cameras.

Pay attention at the data at the left side of tables.

2750, 3400 and 4000 LW/PH. It's theoretical maximum of concrete camera calculated by IMATEST.

You can find 24 MP APS-C camera which could has resolution close to 24 MP FF camera, but...
Not equal. Always LOWER.

To compare resolution of K-5 and D800 is nonsense. D800 has huge resolution.
K-5IIs, I guess, has not higher than 3000 LW/PH. D7000 with weak AA filter than K-5 has 2900 LW/PH.
Dear Friend

Different tests produce different results... you need to make sure they are using the same tests and producing the same results.

QuoteQuote:
To compare resolution of K-5 and D800 is nonsense. D800 has huge resolution.
K-5IIs, I guess, has not higher than 3000 LW/PH. D7000 with weak AA filter than K-5 has 2900 LW/PH
Which would be exactly why I didn't do that. I was comparing a 24 Mp 5200 APS-c chart to a 24 MP DX3 chart...(or a D600 or any 24 MP FF) that's how we got onto this. My argument is that you can get almost the same resolution out of a 24 MP APS-c as you can out of a 24 MP FF. I have always said a D800 was a step up from any other camera on the market (except a 645D from which it is a step down by about the same margin a 24 MP APS_c is to a 24 MP FF.)

02-05-2013, 12:05 PM - 1 Like   #279
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
The resolution of 24 MP APS-C and 24 MP FF cameras are different.
For example, NEX-7 - 3400 LW/PH, D3X - 4000 LW/PH (max.)

The resolution difference between 36 MP FF camera and 16 MP APS-C camera is huge.
You just compared consumer compact camera from the company that is trying hard, but best known for producing TV sets, to top of the line Nikon professional body. ...

Let's try a bit different comparison.
If I'll take a sensor from 21mp Canon 5D Mark II. Cut a little from the top, cut a little from the left to make it physically = to the size of APS-C sensor of Pentax K10D camera. Now with a little magic we managed to stick it into Pantax K10D
What will be censor resolution measured from the center of this K10D. Will it be substantially lower from resolution measured of our donor Canon 5D Mark II?
02-05-2013, 02:17 PM   #280
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QuoteOriginally posted by sandilands Quote
I think I mostly agree with you, although I'm not crazy about 29 minute video cameras in an DSLR package.

The Apple comparison is interesting, however Apple is about to go swirling down a sinkhole. It had one asset - an arrogant despotic visionary genius. That is gone,
Apple Gear: So Much for a Lack of Demand | The Tech Night Owl ? Cutting-Edge Tech Commentary

You've been reading too many "business analysts" trying to get page hits from shock headlines.
02-05-2013, 02:21 PM   #281
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Kind of digital Rolleiflex SL 2000 F / SL 3003 with K mount? With interchangeable lenses, film backs and magazines (==> sensor and electronics), focusing screens, and with built-in waist-level (==> top LCD) and eye-level finders? Could be nice indeed.

Rollei 3003

Yes yes something like this will be great. I will buy it.

Be different, you know? Wait, which company had that slogan several years back??
02-05-2013, 02:23 PM   #282
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Apple Gear: So Much for a Lack of Demand | The Tech Night Owl ? Cutting-Edge Tech Commentary

You've been reading too many "business analysts" trying to get page hits from shock headlines.
NO kidding, I've been hearing PC guys saying Apple was going down for about 20 years. It's really getting old, I mean like really , really old. I would have thought most of the guys spouting what has proven to be total ignorance would have died by now. But apparently some live on to continue the mindless chanting, because god knows, in some circles, if someone says it often enough, some will believe it's true.
02-05-2013, 02:28 PM   #283
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Asahiflex: do you honestly believe Pentax can afford to launch an expensive camera, only to be beaten in every review, every test?
+1 I actually agree with you on this one....
It MUST perform at least as well as its closest competitor at its price point.
The reason for this is that any full frame DSLR that Pentax releases is going to get very heavily scrutenized by everyone in the industry. They will be only 1 of 4 companies with a FF DSLR.
They cannot afford to skimp on key features and to have a few kick-butt key lenses to go along with it. NEW lenses, not lenses that you have to buy second hand from ebay or at a garage sale.
02-05-2013, 02:57 PM   #284
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Apple Gear: So Much for a Lack of Demand | The Tech Night Owl ? Cutting-Edge Tech Commentary


You've been reading too many "business analysts" trying to get page hits from shock headlines.
  1. There are 2190 "Opinions" on Apple stock worldwide - how much more sponsorship can a stock (not the company, the stock) get? That is an absolutely HUGE number of opinions.
  2. Every Growth Stock mutual fund had to own Apple thoughout 2012 to keep up with the others, fueling the 60% increase in the stock price
    1. At many such mutual funds Apple stock had risen to more than 8% of the Net Asset Value of the fund - far too high a weight for reasonable risk
  3. At the end of the quarter, when the "news" was on the street, NO Growth stock mutual fund wanted to show Apple in the TOP 20 holdingas at December 31.
    1. At many such mutual funds massive and repetitive selling of shares was unrelated to the performance of the company itself, but was simply fund marketing, not investment an decision.
If you bought a Ticker Symbol because you thought it would go up, you deserve what happened. If you invested in Apple Company for the long term, you will deserve what happens.
02-05-2013, 03:04 PM   #285
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cali92rs: This is exactly my point; even if the product would be good enough for the few of us, others will be more demanding and in fact I would expect a heavy negative campaign on the internet, if such thing would happen.
I trust Pentax in being capable of doing it right; I'm just pointing out there are no shortcuts, no matter how much we'd like.
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