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02-05-2013, 03:35 PM   #286
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
...If you bought a Ticker Symbol because you thought it would go up, you deserve what happened. If you invested in Apple Company for the long term, you will deserve what happens.
Lol. That last one's a "political" statement if ever I heard one! Or, maybe it's like saying that we get the government we deserve.

Back on topic, maybe we get the Pentax DSLR we deserve, too! Personally, I'm sticking to my K-5 until this little nebulosity resolves itself, or until the K-5IIs drops enough in price (hopefully before my next European trip in April, but I'm betting the latter is the more likely scenario).

People are rather down on the Limiteds and older FA lenses, in relation to a Pentax 35mm DSLR body, but there is surely enough data on their use with a Canon body to judge what the optical issues might be. I haven't looked here for anything, but others might be taking notice. In any event, I would expect a couple of new zooms to start with and a Lens Road Map when the new body is announced. I say "when", because I've held the view for a long time that Pentax has to get into this market at some stage, but unlike others, I'm not convinced they've left it too late. Better late and right than early and not.

02-05-2013, 05:06 PM   #287
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Thanks for the interview, Adam. Very well done and question right to the point.

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
The answer isn't quite as definitive as I was originally told it was, but I think it's still fair to say that we have our official confirmation
I am sorry to say, but this statement does still fall short of what I deemed to be the minimum statement to be made in my blog article prior to Photokina 2010.

We still lack a word that Pentax is committed to release an FF model, and until when.

What e.g., Canon just did for the 70D to reassure that not all forthcoming semi-pro dSLRs will be FF, only most

Too late, too vague.

It does hurt to see management act in slow motion wrt a topic which is going to decide their survival.

I mean, it is new to see they actually received the message. But I need them see act, not just listening. I mean, we just learned still no FF in 2013 right?
02-05-2013, 05:20 PM   #288
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How many times do I have to say that the sky is not falling?

Pentax is not going to fail that easily. Ricoh has the resources to absorb a substantial loss as it works on a next-generation camera. We've seen the last of the Hoya-developed Pentax cameras, the K-5 II and K-5 IIs. We shouldn't expect future cameras to continue this trend of merely incremental developments. And even if come to this, Ricoh has the financial and R&D resources to raise Pentax from the ashes.

--DragonLord
02-05-2013, 05:53 PM   #289
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I mean, it is new to see they actually received the message. But I need them see act, not just listening. I mean, we just learned still no FF in 2013 right?
No FF in 2013 is the speculation from Pentax Forums, based on who-knows-what, and that is not uttered by Kawauchi-san and Wakashiro-san.

What Pentax people said in the previous Photokina interview, and in that short CP+ 2013 clip, is not a speculation; they are examining and testing FF technologies, and at the moment technologies are being 'presented'. What that exactly means? It can mean lots of things, one almost certainly that they don't think just one FF body and just one FF approach.

02-05-2013, 06:09 PM   #290
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
cali92rs: This is exactly my point; even if the product would be good enough for the few of us, others will be more demanding and in fact I would expect a heavy negative campaign on the internet, if such thing would happen.
I trust Pentax in being capable of doing it right; I'm just pointing out there are no shortcuts, no matter how much we'd like.
That point (my emphasis) about negative Internet campaigning is an interesting one, and probably important for this market segment. For the general consumer segment, I doubt it's that important, but I reckon that, at the high-end enthusiast and professional end, it will be important. The sort of baseless internet sledging that occurs in the PC, phone and tablet markets will likely be replicated as a junior player like Pentax attempts to gain a toehold in the FF DSLR segment. One hopes Pentax will be prepared for it. Sadly, some of our own comments here will likely be used in that campaign, so we should all consider that when we post, which is not to say that we should be uncritical, just aware that our comments may be used, whether in context or not.
02-05-2013, 10:07 PM   #291
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
That lenses are "updated for digital" is the biggest bullshit in photographic history. I happily use my oldest lenses on my newest cameras; resolution and sharpness are only important for people with VERY specific (maybe scientific) needs in mind, camera testers and pixel peepers.

To me, sharpness and resolution are probably last on my list when I want to shoot a pleasing photo. General photography is not about resolution and sharpness; far from it. The sooner you realize that, the happier you will be in your shooting

By the way, Canon's L glass is almost as good as my Takumars.
+1 to all this.

Those of us who have a 5D of some sort and have tried Pentax lenses on them 'know' and not 'think' this.
No FF lenses; Lenses for digital; Not comparable to Canikon modern lenses are all people's over thinking, speculation on a cold winter's night.

++1 on the Takumars vs 'L' too.
02-06-2013, 01:18 AM   #292
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QuoteOriginally posted by awo425 Quote
.

If I'll take a sensor from 21mp Canon 5D Mark II. Cut a little from the top, cut a little from the left to make it physically = to the size of APS-C sensor of Pentax K10D camera. Now with a little magic we managed to stick it into Pantax K10D
What will be censor resolution measured from the center of this K10D. Will it be substantially lower from resolution measured of our donor Canon 5D Mark II?
Funny....Do you really believe in what you say....? What do you mean?
You can turn 21 MP FF camera's resolution to 10 MP APS-C only by cropping?

The resolution of 21 MP FF camera in the center won't be different after cropping. You just cut the borders, man...
02-06-2013, 03:16 AM   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
+1 I actually agree with you on this one....
It MUST perform at least as well as its closest competitor at its price point.
The reason for this is that any full frame DSLR that Pentax releases is going to get very heavily scrutenized by everyone in the industry. They will be only 1 of 4 companies with a FF DSLR.
They cannot afford to skimp on key features and to have a few kick-butt key lenses to go along with it. NEW lenses, not lenses that you have to buy second hand from ebay or at a garage sale.
Can't agree with you more here! If they market an FF DSLR they need to do a VERY good job. Any newcomer to the FF DSLR market will be analysed to bits. And not just by their own userbase.

Not only will the Pentax FF be 1 of the 4 brands, those other 3 brands already have multiple iterations of FF cameras. It will be compared to those relentlessly. The verdict on the Pentax FF camera will be based upon resolution charts and features. Things that can be measured.

That's the major disadvantage (danger) of marketing a me-too camera like an FF DSLR. If they want to avoid that, they should market something unorthodox. Something that cannot be compared to those other FF cameras, because it's a different class, or operates differently, or because it's the first one of its kind.

02-06-2013, 03:22 AM   #294
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They should just deliver a K-01 FF, as a start.
Without fashionable feature.
But with perfect ergonomy + additionnal VF.
02-06-2013, 04:04 AM   #295
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I'm no native speaker of Japanese, but I clearly heard him say the following at 0:16 in the video:

やらなきゃならないなっと思っております。

I would translate this as "I think we must do this".

To any doubting that they're serious about FF, this is definitely, semantically speaking, more firm than a waffling statement like "should" or "might".

Last edited by Cannikin; 02-06-2013 at 04:24 AM.
02-06-2013, 05:34 AM   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
No FF in 2013 is the speculation from Pentax Forums
...
they are examining and testing FF technologies, and at the moment technologies are being 'presented'.
You quote me wrong. I meant "we just learned no FF in 2013" as the clear information we can deduce from the interview discussed in this thread. For the reason you did just cite: "technologies are being presented". This normally means that Pentax is in the process of engineering making several proposals to management.

As I said, they now eventually listen as in "they know they must do it". But a product development project with a clear specification is still NOT started yet. Which means it cannot deliver in 2013. Period.

QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
I would translate this as "I think we must do this".

To any doubting that they're serious about FF, this is definitely, semantically speaking, more firm than a waffling statement like "should" or "might".
Yes, and as I said ...


My best guess would be a launch target for Photokina 2014. That would be the most natural target, CP+ 2014 being too early. But FF dSLRs was the hot topic of Photokina 2012. 2014 will be about something else.

So, IMHO the single best bet by Pentax is to release a K-mount mirrorless FF camera with a modular LX-style EVF (several modules, one being a fast high-rez, high contrast oled with high eye point), fast AF developed by 3rd party because Pentax/Ricoh doesn't know how to do it and a recessable (into the mirror box) kit zoom making it an overall small package. If they do that, they can be back by Photokina 2014. But when I see the persons from the interview, I must say they lack the spirit...

Last edited by falconeye; 02-06-2013 at 05:47 AM.
02-06-2013, 06:10 AM   #297
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
So, IMHO the single best bet by Pentax is to release a K-mount mirrorless FF camera with a modular LX-style EVF (several modules, one being a fast high-rez, high contrast oled with high eye point), fast AF developed by 3rd party because Pentax/Ricoh doesn't know how to do it.
What you describe sounds wonderfull! I almost voted Falconeye to be head of the Pentax FF developementteam.


QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
and a recessable (into the mirror box) kit zoom making it an overall small package.
Why would a mirrorless camera have a mirrorbox? I didn't understand that about the K-01 either. Only to enable mounting K-mount lenses without adapter?
02-06-2013, 06:22 AM   #298
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote


My best guess would be a launch target for Photokina 2014. That would be the most natural target, CP+ 2014 being too early. But FF dSLRs was the hot topic of Photokina 2012. 2014 will be about something else.

So, IMHO the single best bet by Pentax is to release a K-mount mirrorless FF camera with a modular LX-style EVF (several modules, one being a fast high-rez, high contrast oled with high eye point), fast AF developed by 3rd party because Pentax/Ricoh doesn't know how to do it and a recessable (into the mirror box) kit zoom making it an overall small package. If they do that, they can be back by Photokina 2014. But when I see the persons from the interview, I must say they lack the spirit...
It means that FF could be not real in 2014 too...Your words cut both ways...
02-06-2013, 06:42 AM   #299
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
What you describe sounds wonderfull! I almost voted Falconeye to be head of the Pentax FF developementteam.
I (and many others apparently) wouldn't touch such a thing with a ten foot pole.
02-06-2013, 07:04 AM   #300
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February11th 2001 , 13 years ago in 5 days...

Pentax some 13 years ago in just 5 days announced...


Pentax 6mp Digital SLR hands-on: Digital Photography Review


On February 11th 2001 Pentax said:


"PMA 2001: Today we got an exclusive hands-on with Pentax's new 6 megapixel digital SLR. At this stage they have an early working prototype which will power up and operate, the onboard software is still a bit rough but the body, controls and operation are already pretty much there. The camera is much smaller and thinner than any other digital SLR, ergonimically it's well designed and everything is where it should be. Pentax haven't named the camera yet.

DENVER, Colorado (February 10, 2001) . . . PENTAX Corporation will preview a new digital autofocus SLR camera (which has not yet been named) at the PMA (Photo Marketing Association) Show held in Orlando, February 11-14, 2001. The addition of this advanced digital SLR camera complements one of the most extensive photographic lines of any manufacturer in the industry including 35mm, APS, medium format and digital for various levels of photographers.


Created along the same developmental concept lines as the new PENTAX MZ-S professional 35mm autofocus SLR camera, this high-end digital SLR will feature a 35mm-film-sized, six megapixel CCD image sensor as well as a DSP and other digital processing components. This package was jointly developed with Philips Electronics in order to realize high-grade image quality, top-level performance and compact dimensions simultaneously. Offering compatibility with the existing PENTAX KAF2 lens mount, it will also accept PENTAX 645-system and 67-system interchangeable lenses (when used with an adapter). This high-performance digital autofocus SLR camera will be ideal for advanced amateurs and professionals who demand top quality images and SLR maneuverability.

The camera will be compatible with four new accessories introduced for the new MZ-S 35mm SLR camera including: 1.) BG-10 Battery Grip, 2.) CS-105 & CS-130 Cable Switches, 3.) TS-110 Release Timer Switch, and the 4.) AF360FGZ Dedicated Flash Unit. The final product specifications, pricing and marketing dates will be announced at a later time."

End of Pentax full frame product announcement quote


So, in 13 years Pentax now has no working camera to show off ???

I bought into Pentax in 2002, a year after their "full frame is coming soon."
I stopped buying brand new Pentax in 2008 after deciding to buy full frame elsewhere.

Good to see the Pentax full frame illusion is alive & well !

I'll add:

The first non existent Pentax full frame was not announced at a bi-annual Photokina.


I'm excited, my old Pentax K Mount glass has just increased in value.
Glad I held onto the lenses while shopping elsewhere for full frame.

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
You quote me wrong. I meant "we just learned no FF in 2013" as the clear information we can deduce from the interview discussed in this thread. For the reason you did just cite: "technologies are being presented". This normally means that Pentax is in the process of engineering making several proposals to management.

As I said, they now eventually listen as in "they know they must do it". But a product development project with a clear specification is still NOT started yet. Which means it cannot deliver in 2013. Period.


Yes, and as I said ...


My best guess would be a launch target for Photokina 2014. That would be the most natural target, CP+ 2014 being too early. But FF dSLRs was the hot topic of Photokina 2012. 2014 will be about something else.

So, IMHO the single best bet by Pentax is to release a K-mount mirrorless FF camera with a modular LX-style EVF (several modules, one being a fast high-rez, high contrast oled with high eye point), fast AF developed by 3rd party because Pentax/Ricoh doesn't know how to do it and a recessable (into the mirror box) kit zoom making it an overall small package. If they do that, they can be back by Photokina 2014. But when I see the persons from the interview, I must say they lack the spirit...
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